Why victimhood is attractive to white men, religions, and other majority groups | Bill Doherty


We live in a very interesting time where we
have, I think, a combination of what’s called expressive individualism, which is about the
importance of me, my experience, what makes me happy. What we now have is something additional and
that is identity and tribal identifications where we have—and I want to say there’s
a good part of this, for one thing—that we have historically marginalized groups,
women certainly in the workforce, in the public sphere, gay people, African-Americans, other
minorities, we’ve had a lot of folks who have been in the margins of power in our society
who have said uh-uh this isn’t working anymore. So these movements towards individual and
group liberation have, in net, been very positive for our country. But we always tend to turn things towards
a kind of individualistic focus. Now we have a culture in which there is competition
for victimhood and white men now, many white men are calling themselves victims; victims
of affirmative action, victims of the liberal left. And you have religious groups that have tens
of millions of people in this country who are victims of outsiders who want to destroy
them. So what’s happened then is, I think, this
expressive individualism has been combined with sort of the benefits of being in an oppressed
group, you know, the moral high ground that comes with that and the strong identification
that comes with being in a victimized group. And now, everybody is in a victimized group. After the great recession in 2007/2008, bankers
were the new victimized group. And so there’s an unhealthy trend towards
tribal competition for victim status in our country and I want to go back and again say,
there is something to the victim, there is something to it. This is hard to talk about without saying:
okay everybody should just get along and stop complaining. I’m not saying that at all. But there is something unhealthy, and what
it keeps us from doing—this is my main problem with it —it keeps us from working across
identity groups to solve the problems that we have together. Because all of our major problems related
to poverty, to education, to healthcare, to the environment—just take any of our problems—they
require cross-identity group coalitions to work on together. And when we divide into identity groups we
can’t work across coalitions. Martin Luther King, just before he died, was
working on poverty on a cross-racial coalition. He knew that the civil rights laws needed
to be changed and it had to be a black leadership to change those Jim Crow laws. The next step was poverty and poverty is not
just racial. And he knew that you needed to have a broad
coalition. That’s going to be hard nowadays. Some are trying it, but that is much harder
to do in an identity-based society.




Comments
  1. I get the need for a catchy clickbait title, but that isn't even remotely what Bill Doherty was claiming. If you're gonna clickbait, at least make an attempt to address his premise correctly.

  2. Whats ironic, identity Politics has been the bread and butter of the Right since the Civil Rights Act. The Southern Strategy is the most effective and destrutive identity politics in America. Identity politics only works on the majority group, because thats the most votes. It doesnt nor ever has worked for the minority because not enough votes. The left depends on a coalition of groups, the Right does not. All the the Right has to do is appeal to white fear and hate. A much simpler electoral strategy. Its so easy that the star of Celebrity Apprentice could do it.

  3. The underlying problem is the perversion of history and the absolute disregard for FACTUAL truth in in every aspect of our society.

  4. tl;dw: Intersectionality and worker solidarity rule. When the proles divide themselves into groups and squabble among themselves, the rich (bourgeoisie) have half of their work already done for them. We are many, they are few.

  5. Unsubscribed. People are individuals and should be treated as such. To broad brush any group as you have here with your thesis is to base your entire thesis on your own racially biased view. "white men are starting to…" You sure about that? Have you checked in with ALL of them or are you just making racist generalizations for the purpose of your intellectually dishonest pomposity? Victimhood is not popular with any majority group. It's only used by cry babies who would otherwise have no basis to make legitimate complaints. It is generally used as a way to blame others for their own problems rather than actually doing something about their situation. This entire video almost seems like a preemptive way to discredit any legitimate claims by these so called majority groups. In this case the one called out in the video: White males.

  6. Big Think. Maybe you should rename comments. Try triggered. It's almost becoming more entertaining to read all the complainers than watch the videos. Two things are certain, though. There appear to be a lot of people with self esteem issues. And, a lot of them praise greed, from what all human drives flow. As the proverb says, 'You can't take it with you'.

  7. what exatcly do you mean by majority groups ? Whites are by far the smallest race by population and our numbers are the only ones declining, yet we still feel the need to feed the whole world…

  8. Once again big think ruining the like dislike ratio by putting an inaccurate title on the video.
    But yeah I guess people not even watching the video are to blame as well…

  9. Boy the comments are cancerous, lol

    Just a bunch of people spouting off cliche arguments that didn't even think about watching the video

    (Or thinking for themselves)

  10. You people need to learn that identity politics is a buzzword used to give negative connotation to people solving sexism/racism. Do people have identified? Are they affected by politics? Then the politics related by that identity is important, end of discussion.

  11. This had Henry Rollins so I subscribed, saying people who are outraged by legitimate injustices is victimhood is not something I subscribe too.

  12. Came here to add my downvote to this racist shit, and I'm not even white. Racism is racism, no one can redefine what racism means.

  13. I'm a white man who is a victim of a culture that promotes victimhood. I rebel against that culture by not being a victim, man up, and point out other peoples victim bullshit. Nobody is a victim, we are all winners (compared with past living standards)

  14. What stops groups from working together, is when one group that has real problems, is told they aren't allowed to talk about those issues

  15. it's a protestant thing

    look at South Africa

    the majority ie blacks still think they're oppressed by XYZ group.

  16. White people are the only ones discriminated against now and they’re the only ones not bitching about it. But you know what I’m not going to speak out against tribalism I think complete segregation of races is the best and most logical solution and the best way to get that is to encourage more of this behavior.

  17. I’m not convinced that identity politics was ever positive, even for marginalised groups. Those same reforms could have been made by looking at social problems in terms of equal individual liberty. There’s no need to invoke the confusing and divisive ideas of collective group identity.

  18. Ok so we need to stay divided and complain more…. this is dumb… the answer is to stop dividing people by race and instead just treat people by the content of their character.

  19. Its an absurd assumption to make, that white people are the oppressor and minorities the oppressed. See the mass rape of german women in Koln by arabs and turks. Imagine if it had been the reversed situation? A thousand white men out to rape muslim women during Ramadan? Imagine claiming a peaceful historically country like Norway or Sweden has an oppressive history for being "white", while our large turkish immigrant population with truly oppressive history (armenian genocide, Ottoman empire, treatment of kurds today) gets to play the victims? Identity politics is absurd to its very nature. If we solely speak on economic terms are whites oppressed by asians because eastasians get 50% higher avarage salary than whites in the US? Because eastasians are overrepresented in Universities? How about believing in the meritocracy of the system and stop complaining about "systematic oppression" for once? In many states like California whites are not even minority-majority, in cities like Malmo in Sweden it is a nightmare to be white in your own homecountry, as young whites are about 35% of the population and imagine being a blonde Swedish woman walking through the dark streets of Northern Malmo at night? Consider that we are turning into minorities in neighborhoods, cities (London, Paris, Los Angeles!) and sometimes entire states in countries that historically had always been white. It is not going to stop, it is just a matter of time before it is going to boil over. White working class people who can not afford to move away to the gated communities are the first to turn to more and more racist ideology out of desperation, the rich whites who can afford having a socially acceptable opinion about things get to sneer at them, while acting out the same racism in the way they move around to avoid multiculture they advocate. This speak of privilege and connecting it to race is a fucking disgrace to hear for the coalminer in Kentucky or the older poor white  living in Malmo who suddenly lives in an Alien country where everyone speaks a different language. To even define privilege seems a difficult thing to do, if it is based on economy then jews and asians are most privileged in the US (do we really want that discussion after what happened in Nazi germany?), if it is based on majority-minority groups than whites are underprivileged in say Brazil or California where they are minorities. No matter how you twist and turn the question it gets difficult to justify the idea of a corrupted racist system built by whites in the West.

  20. White man victimhood? What about black man? It is basically their way of live. Not to mention feminists and always butthurt SJW.

  21. Big Think became garbage bin for leftist ideology. No point in wasting time here. Victimhood? Ask black ppl and feminists, they are experts in the field.

  22. Liberals: "Oh they are just calling themselves victims"

    Also Liberals: "White men must die"

    Yeah, I can see why they say they are victims.

  23. To all Jordan Peterson fans. This video is talking about you. Instead of analyzing the economic circumstances that adversely effect your life and finding ways to confront it. You rationalize yourselves into a victim hood complex and attack 'neo-marxism' for building a gender neutral bathroom. What effects your life more? Taxes, a loss of job prospects, a lacking of economic stability and an extreme social alienation from other people and your labour. Or some dead French guys?

  24. I am offended by the graphic that this talk is using. I find it equally demeaning, just as if the graphic had a minority on the cover. This is a terrible way to promote a talk.

  25. So being a victim depends on the subgroup you belong to? So if I'm a white straight man who gets robbed, I'm not a victim, but if the person who robs me is a nonwhite gay female, they are the victim?

    Surely it depends on the person and the circumstances right?

  26. More billionaires at your taxes..Handful dead by neonazi americans? Looks like a redneck revolt shelter… The only way

  27. Poor logic. Just because someone is in a majority group does not mean they are immune to victimization from a minority group.

  28. What a profoundly ignorant video; Attempting to claim something that is the opposite of reality. Please dont listen to these bafoons and the bullshite ideology of the globalists, being shoveled on your head

  29. Problem is the oppressed needs to be defined first. Because your whole argument is based on an assumption. The assumption is who are the oppressed group, to what extent they oppressed if so, and how. You first have to prove the oppression, in order to begin your argument.

  30. white folk are 9 percent of the world. in the countries where whites are the majority the war is on to make them the minority. studies show that white men are tanking in the west.
    bigthink just keeps talking big shit.

  31. OK, but if you're saying cooperation should go beyond identity groupthink, do you acknowledge that such groupthink exists on both "sides"? According to the title, no.

    The gays, women, black people today often present the same mixture of "expressive individualism" and group identification that the majorities do. It's basically a mirror reflection.

    I'd agree with your message if you hadn't basically undone the good work by identifying this problem as a MAJORITY PROBLEM and not a problem in the whole of society.

  32. You know who is most attracted to victimhood? Women, BLM, SJWs. They turned every conversation about victimhood, divided people by races and enforce political correctness, against freedom of thought. Implying that it's attractive to "white men" just destroyed your message.

  33. >Victimhood is attractive to white men
    SJWs will say this but then demand reparations even though they weren't a slave, compare themselves to jews in the holocaust when being misgendered, blame a entire race of people for the Imperialism/Colonialism of 5 countries (but then ignore China and imperial Japan), and cry "oppression!" if this narrative is ever questioned :^)

  34. Well ironically anyone that actually has a definition of they're existing life would down vote this garbage unfortunately i am not a trump supporter or a Christian but i do have goals its quite clear most americans are stuck drinking that twisted tea on the front porch everyday at the same time and pretend they're not addicts try enjoying something to enjoy it not to consume..go get your heroin fix oh wait your not on heroin anymore saboxin what's that you say your not an addict but your mentality states otherwise.

  35. He can't see the forest for the trees. Positive results aren't the markers of right and wrong. Further, the people he discusses are reactionary to change, using similar tools. He shows his own bias here. I'd say he's a bit off the mark. The problem is when victimhood becomes a end, something to be desired and lionized. The end result is either manipulation through sympathy or failure to recognize one's power to decide and be responsible for their thinking and feelings, which leads to blaming others for their results. I don't see the difference in left right here. Playing the victim is just another adaptation to get an advantage, when it's used beyond the initial need.

  36. This title is pure click bait nonsense. Race baiting titles and generalizations wont get anyone anywhere in a civilized conversation.

  37. Every group, be it men vs women, white vs black, etc are victims of something one way or another. For example, there are a lot of non-caucasian's who are racist towards white people. Saying that white men can't complain and are not allowed to feel victimized every now and then is just as fair as saying black women aren't allowed to complain or feel victimized. I find this man's opinion somewhat dangerous.

  38. I see the like- to- dislike ratio is even…. would be a real shame if someone changed that…..

  39. I grew up constantly having a preacher shout that "Christians are under attack" I'm like uh ok, that makes no sense whatsoever, that for sure doesn't match my experience

  40. We all need to become Bahai's, all religions come from God, religion is one, progressive revelation!

  41. Here's the difference. You can actually see actual laws and policies that cram things down on religious institutions.

  42. "When we divide into identity groups, we can't work across coalitions." This dude gets it. It's amazing how ppl mass down-vote anything they think they disagree with before even watching it. Further evidence of how toxic tribal politics is becoming on the right as well as the left.

  43. You choose to be a Republican, You choose to be a Christian, You choose to be a racist. Choices have consequences.

  44. White men are victims of racism and sexism. By definition anytime you have affirmative action you have ____ism. Additionally, you are discriminating against anyone not in the group being favored.

  45. White people want people of color to stop reminding them of the horrific shit their ancestors did, while at the same time saying that it was a long time ago and that they shouldn't have to answer for or rectify any of those issues. I think that's weak as fuck, but that's the approach most white people take.

    White peoples issue is that they're not being given the benefit of the doubt. I can understand, and even relate. All through out my life, I've managed to get what I want from any given situation for the most part. On the rare occasions that I don't, I notice that my attitude becomes funky. But when I (and this is the important part white people.) reflect internally on why I have those feelings, it seems to stem from being treated out of what I deem to be the ordinary. Then it makes me realize that my ordinary is a privileged ordinary. I have the mental maturity to be able to reflect on the base causes of my emotional responses.

    Now that's without the 400 year rap sheet of being an evil white asshole. Add that into the mix, along with those pictures of your grandfather smiling next to the mutilated body of my grandfather hanging in a tree, and you can see why nobody (especially the people of color that you so often brutalize and patronize) wants to fuck with you… except asian people. But that's asian people.

    Now que the white tears, because white people can understand complex concepts like elliptical orbits in space, but can't understand how not to be an asshole to people who don't look like them.

  46. Dream millennial victimhood: a black Muslim lesbian transgender teenage female with a blue-placard handicap that's in the U.S. illegally and is lefthanded. So marginalized.

  47. it's like this , just about every white male on earth is very anti – semetic and passionately hates south Asian , middle eastern and Jewish males only . and weirdly enough the black and Hispanic guys have the same exact specific hatred to . same thing with all three races females too but the males are much worst . as for the many other races on earth most of them too have this racial hatred towards south Asian , Arab , Jewish males but to a much lesser extent except in the case of the Burmese whom are currently butchering the south Asian " rohingyas" of rakine state . in short no one truth fully faces real racism like those three groups I mentioned and I say that because I've done my home work and not because I'm south Asian and from what I've seen we're (south Asian ) literally the most hated dudes on earth

  48. If it’s about minorities it’s “facts”

    It’s it’s about white guys it’s “white guilt propaganda”

  49. White anglo males have been blaming blacks, asians, mexicans, atheists, islam, women, china, russians, communist for their issues for generations. Now they play the victims of those victims accusing them of blaming the white men. The real true SNOWFLAKES.

  50. Every time I see "white straight male" anywhere (almost) it's a white straight male whining about how they are being targeted instead of, you know, someone actually saying they should be targeted. Obviously most normal people (including most white straight males) don't have that issue.

  51. Maybe they always have been and they’re just realising because of the internet showing what’s inside everyone’s head on a scale never scene before

  52. Fascinating. So, victimhood is attractive to white men, merely as a concept to exploit?.. When the mainstream has been pushing the victoomhood narrative for black men, white women, other minorities. And of course historically, the entirety of the Jewish people. Essentially all other people of the earth are allowed to feel victimized.. But not white men. For some reason? When white men cry foul that's too far, suddenly it's an "unhealthy trend"? How is this not horribly racist?

    I suppose whites are simply not allowed to take issue. My supposed "white privilege" a worthy exchange for the years of relentless attacks, discriminated against as a "white boy" in a predominantly black neighborhood? According to modern liberal academia, blacks are incapable of racism. So I suppose nobody was at fault when slurs were hurled at me, as I was attacked relentlessly for things I did not do. When I was beaten up, repeatedly, simply for being white.. But the media says I cannot be a victim, so toughen up buttercup!!! And people wonder why white males constitute a staggering 70% of suicide deaths? Why more and more turn to mind numbing drugs?? Sheesh. Big think, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for this one, trivializing the suffering of thousands of people in order to fit into what is deemed to be an acceptable political narrative. Similar in many unsettling ways to Nazi propagandists actually.

  53. Hey Bill, your opinion doesn't matter, why? Because you are a white, colonizing, privileged male.

    (Fun fact, someone said that to me once… still can't get over it)

  54. No silver spoon in this girl, unless you count the tiny silver spoon used to take aloe.

    Burns, ever been burned alive to avoid rape? I have. All the way up to my elbows and knees, had to crawl out of the coals the boys threw me into. Yeah, complex PTSD. Perhaps I need an exorcism. Maybe I'm filled with only evil and that's why everyone abused me, including my catholic grandmother. Vicious. Abuse for not being a cheerleader like grandmother demanded. Literally, one example. Nevermind the blood and my own psychotic biological father. My father, heard hellacious stories about him.

    Can of worms, tried to learn more about my family and all I keep finding is deeper craziness. Skeletons…… so many skeletons

  55. Like, Judith Butler levied this sophisticated (feminist, postructuralist) critique of radical identitarian feminism (read "lesbian' sepratism, some strains of cultural feminism, anti-lesbian and anti-trans. feminism). It was subtle and complex…somehow the reactionary right has latched onto a totally different argument, taken it and run with it. Really its Limbaugh and Hannity conservatism doing this.

  56. Weve historically marginalized groups… Women, gay people. NO YOU LIEING SOCIAL ENGINEERING SCUM. You marginalized people of colour and specifically oppressed and committed countless mass genocide on black people. That is it, not Gay, not women!! Do you know history? Can anyone recall the last 400yrs or is it just me. F**k sakes. These people are delousional. Indenial to the core. Every word is BS. 39 seconds in and im sickened.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *