Germaine Greer on women's liberation, the trans community and her rape



thank you very much for coming in today I mean these days more often than not when I see you interviewed you're being asked about trans rights about equality do you find the fact that nobody's talking about liberation anymore or women's roles a bit depressing I know I try not to do depression I mean like most people who are depressive I have depression from time to time it's the black dog it just turns up and you just have to get through it it isn't a rational response to anything depression it concerns me it worries me equality as far as I'm concerned is profoundly conservative aim it would get us nowhere it would mean that women did the things that men do and they can make all the noise in the world but when he repaid exactly the same amount of money for doing what for doing the job in exactly the same way this will get us nowhere the corporate world is misery I don't really think that men are happy in the corporate world but they train from for it from the time they're tiny when they had their first secret Club and they have their first leader and they have their first step and fetch it and their first Joker boys live in groups and these groups are patterns for the corporate world they will eventually enter accept that now they're so huge and when you look at the takeovers of virtual companies by other virtual companies you begin to wonder if all going mad but men are trying to exist in this world which is cutthroat and competitive and bellicose and women are fighting for entry even though even when women invent video games they're a different kind of video game but they're not the one sort of the biggies we seem to be making fantasy war the whole time why do women want to get involved in that because there used to be a women's league for peace and freedom and women understood that war is now being waged against civilians against women and children and yet we're saying can we please join the army that's the wrong and that's the Equality aim I want to carry a weapon I want to be able to shoot people I've never met I don't think we can go that way did you always know that I mean when you were writing the Female Eunuch did you did you at you already decided that equality was the wrong goal yes definitely how did you come to that conclusion so quickly and so early on I could see that the lives that men were leading were driving them crazy that the corporate world is one of doggy-dog or you know somebody climbing up your back if you actually look at the pattern of the corporate world there are people falling out of it it's actually a machinery for failure and there's only one CEO at the top and it always struck me as amazing what does the CEO do and the answer is nothing his desk is empty because everything has been delegated but when you delegate jobs to other people if they fail you dump them you don't take any personal responsibility and most of the hoops that men leap through in the corporate world I'm meant to we know them out get rid of them and I just thought this is hateful and we know that men are unhappy how many times we have to be told that men are killing themselves we know this where their mothers after all we know something about how sad they are and we know how how war is driving our soldiers mad you know they come back from the war and they're homeless they're mentally disturbed they're in prison and that we lose more soldiers through self-harm and suicide than we do through enemy action doesn't anybody get it that this is wrong I mean I've this is crazy it doesn't make sense at all I won't spend most of our time talking about the things you've written about in your books but I just want to know what you think of the current state of feminist discourse and the things that it's seemingly obsessed by what does it tell us about how much progress we've made in the last 50 years since you wrote the female unit well I don't look at the usual indicators there may be more women earning the same pay as men if that was the issue but we still have women doing all the unpaid work the UN analyses tell us that and how can you expect equal pay for working in a paid work when you're going home to work harder for nothing I mean that's a simple case of of expecting the employer to do something that nobody else is going to do well that isn't going to work out that way we keep pretending that men are doing an equal share but every time we get the analysis of who does what it doesn't work out that what you think equal pay is a foolish goal I think thinking of it in terms of pay if you think of it in terms of reward that's a bit different you know why do we do the jobs we do widenar sirs nurse why do they get frustrated when they've got too much paperwork and when they haven't got enough resources and when they haven't got access to the newest techniques of relieving people suffering because they love the work and they and everybody who deals with nurses or teachers or carers knows this and they make them pay you're doing a job you love doing you're working for people you love you go home knowing that you've relieved somebody suffering well we'll find you for that we'll just pay you less because we know you won't strike so are you saying that the women who were still fighting for equal pay should be more militant no well wait a minute does militancy actually work I mean shouting and screaming doesn't work marching doesn't work a negotiation could work but I mean one of our biggest problems was what happened when we had the Equal Pay Act and it and the male workforce was asked what would be a fair outcome and they said something they had to know was rubbish they said women should be paid equal pay for work of equal value and you have to say to them what makes you think work has a value because you didn't get higher pay for your job until you used your muscle until you went out on strike until you did collective bargaining until you actually wrestled with the potentates until you got a deal and now you don't want to share the deal and they didn't they didn't want to share it with other workers in their own industry so that a man tightening screws on the assembly line would be earning more because of the battles fought by his Union than the women who are making upholstery now you can sell a car without 50 screws in it because no one will know where they went but don't try to sell it without our whole story because you won't and that's what happens in Dagenham but you see we keep telling those stories wrong we pretended that Dagenham brought the women equal pay it absolutely did not do that and that was a distortion of the history the women got the semi-skilled rate which they shouldn't have got they should have got the skilled rate and they accepted a deal and they got done and this is what happens to women all over they accept a deal and they get done the gender pay discussion though has followed the me2 movement which is also dominated discussion over the last year you you got into some sort of arguments over that because of of saying it was sort of it was it was a whinging no I did not use that word my problem with it is that it's dishonorable you know these were claimed to have been outraged 20 years ago far too many of them entered into an agreement which involved non-disclosure and they took payments sometimes for a lot of money six-figure payments now the statute of limitations has elapsed now they've suddenly decided well when we know there's nothing to gain now by keeping silent now we're going to start kicking ass and taking names talking loud and drawing a crowd and we are going to now pursue the men who we consider to be malefactors here you don't do that in my view that's blackmail I don't know how it's different from blackmail if I come to you and say I know that you felt up a girl in the typing pool who is so frightened that she never came back to work and I'm gonna tell the paper it's a new Satan don't be too hasty what will it take to keep your mouth shut I don't know how those negotiations went on but I think they're profoundly dishonorable and women should never event it into them and it's now quite wrong to say that they've been brave they'd be brave now that the statute of limitations is elapsed in most cases in the case of Bill Cosby for example Cosby was sued in a civil action by scansion a woman who who was awarded damages she had also signed a nondisclosure agreement but now scant in her case which she won on a lower burden of proof because it's done on probability and not on the absence of all possible doubt now that case has been reared under this pressure and Cosby in a second retrial because the first one fell over a secondary trial has been found guilty and you just think this is such a mess and the next thing that's going to isn't surprising a wrong ultimately I mean no Evan Ryder day even if it was a a long time ago they haven't righted it though how could they write it not writing it but actually doing something about it doing something to hold people to account because they won't work Krishnan it's not gonna work the terrible thing is that Rose McGowan I hear I read online has sold her house in LA to pay the costs for the civil case against Harvey Weinstein she could have gone to the police about Harvey Weinstein Weinstein for nothing because that's what we pay our taxes so what's women supposed to do them if they are if they are victims of some sort of sexual assault or harassment we're not even allowed to call ourselves victims we at we're survivors okay so like the wreck of the Titanic and it's it's not it's just a fuck complete there's a mad idea that this could destroy your life you know that it's the worst thing a possible sexual assault and it's not true you can look if it's to do with how susceptible you are then this is more stuff we have to think about if a woman says that you overcame me you ignored me you ignored me saying to you please stop please don't do this and then she says you know you've taken my my liberty my optimism my lights my and I've done all this and you think hang on a minute it was a fuck how could it do all that why have you collapsed because this happened it happened to me can you say the song of rape oh but this wasn't in my case it was a rape they talked about about consent here I've got a man saying sorry fuck right and I'm saying no you think say fuck me yeah and each time he hits me across the face with the back of his hand and I don't know if he did it 5 10 15 times did I in the end said I can't remember how could I remember at some point I tried to crawl out of the car I was in a car where he'd taken the handles off the door and I tried to get out he shut the door on my head and crushed the cartilage in my ear and eventually it was completed as they say in law I have no idea what there was completed a lot but it didn't kill me I I worried about this is going to amaze me but I worried about him I thought you poor bastard you're completely crazy and they're going to get you like a mad dog they're gonna get you and you don't think that experience could destroy a woman no maybe you didn't destroy you anyone it shouldn't destroy anyone if it does it's because you've been told lies about who and what you are I'm trying to think of ways around it most rapes do in a court of law most rapes occur in marriage as a matter of fact and I've just finished reading a new book which is by Basia Briggs where she talks about her first marriage there was not never in the history of womanhood was there more destructive abuse of a woman than in that perfectly suburban relationship in which her husband used and abused her relentlessly and she had never occurred to her she had a case against him because he can't bring a case against him without destroying the family it's the same old problem we have with domestic violence but what are you saying about those women who do say has destroyed me then and who wants to bring action are you saying they're making it up well we have to make it untrue now the fact that they are now taking action suggests that it's untrue but I would want to suggest that it's always untrue rape isn't the worst thing that can happen to you obviously you know we like to think oh the penis is a weapon Susan Brown Miller said you know it's a weapon let's know it isn't you want to hurt a man try hurting him there that's one of the easiest places to hurt speaking for myself I kind of had a vague idea that I should grab his balls or twist them or something but I thought I'll screw it up I won't get it right and he'll kill me I didn't think really think he'd kill me I just thought he'd hit me even hotter but at that stage I've been hit so much it isn't the worst thing that can happen to you it we we shouldn't have our young women more afraid of a penis than our sons are afraid of a knife that is just stupid we are not getting it our girls have a way out in a way rape is a way of escaping murder boys can't make that deal unless somebody wants to bother them which as we know is easier to prove in law then rape of a woman I mean it's all a mess because it's come down to us through masculine law because when women used to be the product of a man and so the crime was against the man the crime of rape is now against the state and it has to be dealt with as any other crime you have to prove the case beyond or possible doubt in the case of consent you can't do that I don't turn blue in our consent there is no way you can tell well what you just said in the last few minutes is a really good illustration of what happens with you in these sorts of debates there isn't in that what you're doing here is making a really powerful argument about the uselessness of the law and how the rape is never prosecuted but in the process but a lot of women listening to this will say what you just said is utterly offensive about women and people who have been raped and you're belittling their suffering and their experience by saying it doesn't doesn't kill them that ends up being the headline doesn't that happen to you a lot that you know you say something and it kind of gets you know they're the headline ends up as something that you perhaps didn't this is why I've told you that I know about being raped when I've written about rape in the past and said let's try and get sensible here let's try on the scale understand how much of it there is if we agree that most of it is never reported to the police it's not even understood by anybody involved to be a crime then we couldn't understand that the things that sticker the horrible brutal things which we know were done in the case of the Belfast war that these things are as it were the peaks that stand up above a huge landscape of sexual abuse of non-consensual sex that women bear and it does them no good at all it erodes their self-confidence erodes their sense of selfhood and dignity and it impoverishes that tenderness the mutual love that should exist between spouses we've got to not do this we've got to somehow deal with the fact that there's too much bad sex you could even argue that most of the sex that happens in the age of pornography is bad sex it's sex with organs and not with people it's fetishistic it is masturbatory people are never more alone we've not even elevated sex we've turned it into something completely banal but what you've said about rape I mean a man might take from that Germaine Greer is saying rape isn't that bad well it's not as bad as murder I'm convinced of that but not not just that but that isn't as bad as society currently holds it but sad as society hold it just be aware of the fact that you know most rapes are not reported and all the figures about the relationship and the reported one so the unreported ones are as soft as butter because they have no idea what they're talking about a rape that's unreported is simply unreported I didn't report mine you might be surprised to learn that Mary beard was raped on a train in Italy she didn't report her as either she was in Italy didn't speak Italian on her way to work on her PhD thesis her whole life would have been torn apart if she decided to try and bring a criminal case in Rome and I can tell you it would have taken just about the rest of her life you just can't do it it's not doable it's never been doable I didn't do it because I knew that I would be discredited what was I do I went to a party in the suburbs I danced with this man and we went to get a cigarette we went out the wrong door from the party and ended up in the garden on the other side of the house he then said let's go for a walk and I thought it's too early to start screaming so I kind of went for a walk and then I ended up being pushed into the car and then everything else followed from that I would have been dead to rights I they would have torn me to pieces in those days I wouldn't have even been examined for DNA nowadays you get worked up over weeks not only that you have to surrender your mobile phone you lose all your privacy as a rape victim because you've become a piece of evidence so you say you think the answer to this is actually to stop trying to prosecute people for rape no no it's not quite that it's a better idea to bring a civil case for damages but be aware you can lose it you can lose it for contre contributory negligence though you didn't behave sensibly you put yourself in a position of Jeopardy our third party can lose it like the people who owned the house that I was at their party because they didn't put in safeguards for young women who might be drawn off into the dim suburbs of Melbourne and you can have costs awarded against you and it can go on and on and on and the longer it goes on and this is the thing I think about Marian about me that I didn't want my story to be I was raped that's not my story I was in the wrong place it was like being hit by a bus I didn't internal I said it was my fault in fact ironically the boy involved who offended again and I feel bad about that because if I had actually denounced him and I prefer to call it denouncing by the way rather than complaining if I denounced him he might have been stopped because a rapist of that kind was extremely violent is usually a recidivist this is a predator and he set me up and he knew and he actually had that the car and everything set up to do exactly what he did so boys damages a good outcome but a nondisclosure agreement which you get paid one hundred and thirty thousand dollars or whatever it might be for a sexual assaults for your sexual assault you get paid not for being assaulted but for keeping your mouth shut now I didn't keep my mouth shut all the people in my circle knew what had happened and what actually happened in my case and it sounds almost Indian is that the guys who took me to the party I was working as a housekeeper for four guys who owned a flat in a very luxurious part of Melbourne and they had taken me to the party I then disappeared because once I got to my feet after B I was badly bruised and knocked about and very dizzy I just want I thought I wanted to go back and tell the guys please take me home something awful has happened but I thought people would be able to tell I thought I didn't even know if I was covered with blood I had no idea and I just wandered up the road the guys came home to the flat about an hour later and they were very angry because it was they considered that he had taken a Liberty with a friend of theirs and what they actually did was something totally illegal about wonderful about three nights afterwards I was ironing tablecloths in the kitchen and suddenly he was there in the doorway of the kitchen and I looked at him and then one of the other guys standing behind him said is this one and I said yes so what's gonna happen now what if he we got to make me marry him or something while we had the marriage of reparation police what's going on he took him away they took him to the front room and they shut the door and they said to him because they all come from the same public school set you know they said do you like to ski and awesome do you I said well don't come anymore we get you above the snow line then they said don't you don't you surf a talkie we get you outside the surf line you'll drown and he disappeared and that was extraordinary to actually because it doesn't happen I mean and there was no legal process or anything completely illegal but it worked the only thing is he committed the same crime again with a young woman who was engaged it's a silly story they were going to he and her fiancee going to a party they needed some grog liquor so they went to the sleight Rock shop and they said to this guy whose name I completely suppressed I have no idea what his name is they said to him take her to the party and I'll be along with the grog and he raped her on the way to the party mad as a hatter and dangerous well it's well your yu-yan your public profile and a lot of your sort of big television interviews and tackling big topics you end up obsessing some people yeah well do you you care about causing offense or I can offend it every day this kind of fix set up occasion every time mother Browns book mrs. Brown's boys comes on television I'm vomiting with rage but who's going to give me a break but do you think it's a good thing to try not to offend people no no you just always say whatever you think and hang the consequence is tell the truth one of the things that happens in rape is you're not allowed to get over it because they keep saying if you say I'm ok I'm not crushed I'm okay they'll say you're in denial you've been traumatized and you're now denying it you're not going and this will change you for the rest of your life everything that happens to you changes you for the rest of your life how can it be more dreadful than being conscripted into an army say and made to kill people you've never met I mean how can we turn this into this vast drama when there are so many worse things that are going on in the world I mean you say it's really important to tell the truth the people who are most offended with you at the moment seemed to be the trans community and this is something you get asked about a lot even though as far as I can tell you don't you don't really write about it or talk about it voluntarily and so it makes me wonder why you enter into this today's is is it just because somebody asks you a question so you answer it which debate about whether trans women are women you know what is a woman or all of that definitional argument that you you've been drawn into recently that has got you into a lot of trouble with a lot of people and they're all offended with you well no they pretend to be offended I mean I keep being told that I'm going to be not platformed right the people the general public out there thinks I've been prevented from speaking on this subject a I don't speak on this subject they speak on nothing else so leave it to them we're not even allowed to refer to the fact that somebody is transgender we've got to call these people women and we've got behaviors if we cannot see that they are not as we are when it's blindingly obvious that's all an infringement of our right of free speech but we don't make a big fuss about that what actually happens is they keep saying that I'm not allowed to speak on any subject whatsoever because I because of that because because you've because they're men and they think well they were mean and they think that they're important it's what about me it's a great male question we could embroider it on all your t-shirts what about me we have problems of definition about what is a woman maybe but we have many more problems connected the fact that we are women because people can't make sense of our Anatomy or our health or what menstruation is or why some women are crippled by menstruation and can't go to work we can't we can't make some how much too terribly shy in utero is why because there are that there are lots of feminists who find the whole question of trans women very annoying and they feel it's an assault on them and they feel it's a misogynist kind of construct GRU amongst them more insulting I'm afraid I think it's uninteresting I think we have much bigger problems and our problems are connected with things like that we cannot tell young woman a woman why her baby died in utero at seven months why can't we tell that because we've never worked on it why have we never worked on it because of misogyny because of lack of interest because being interested in women's affairs is to become the most contempt of doctors a gynecologist so they can't answer the simplest questions what is postpartum psychosis how do we get take care of women who are threatening to kill their babies and the young woman who died as they ferried her between three hospitals a young well-connected woman who died because they they eventually they tried to restrain her she ruptured her liver at that stage they decided that she needed to go to a mental hospital and she ended up dead that is a solutely outrageous and it should never happen in our community or indeed in any community don't you feel that you'd be able to spend more time on all of those questions if you just moved on from this trans question and said okay fine if you want to join us as women than your women come and join us in the biggest troubles well they're not gonna help us much with postpartum psychosis are they or even with menstrual discomfort oh I think we can manage you know we are fifty-one percent of the population and we're being held to ransom by a handful of people who are extremely vocal and aggressive and that's no surprise to any of us I mean I don't understand why we have to make a mockery of older women and that's universal you say to me I'm offending people every time you get vilified because you're an old woman and you only have to be 50 not very old I'm now 18 I'm as old as you like and you can call me cinahl and anything else you want to call me but I'm not going to be hijacked for this question of sexual identity of gender identity look I wrote a book a long time ago about how you get made into a woman in those days we called it conditioning and you could see it it happens from birth little baby girls are left to cry for longer than baby boys they are fed for shorter periods than baby boys we won't learn to be smaller than baby boys and so on and so on and so on and it goes right through entire lifespan where we're learning femininity and it's a masquerade it's not who we really are there is nothing feminine about being pregnant it's almost the antithesis of that there's nothing feminine about giving birth it's a bloody struggle and you've got to be strong and brave there's nothing feminine about breastfeeding God knows it drives everybody man they won't see nice big Pumped Up tits but they don't want to see them doing their job and it just goes on and on that masquerade is what is now being presented to us back as the real deal with the hair extensions and the false eyelashes and you think why do you think that's real when we all know that it is supposed gender let me explain here sex is a given and you can be intersex one of the women agenda quake is genuinely intersex she has breasts and a penis and she's fantastic and she doesn't want to cut her body about God knows it's it's a it's a problem buddy she has problem when she meets someone whether she thinks they might be able to develop a relationship when does she say by the way I've got a penis she's an accepted female gender that is all fine it's not a problem for me and intersex is relatively common especially in certain ethnic groups and they have ways of dealing with it it's a completely different thing when you decide to eliminate masculinity at one end and adopt hyper femininity at the other because you've left all this space in here where the rest of us live I'm not a particularly feminine person but some aspects of my character men will tell you are extremely feminine I don't even think about it so just so we can make sense of this conversation just briefly can you just explain to me what you mean by femininity and masculinity and how it differs from sex well let's see femininity is that is learning to speak more softly it's learning it's why little girls want to wear a pink tutu to the shops it's why they want their bedroom painted pink because what they or be a princess I have my god children spent five years wanting to be princesses I had to preach many a sermon about how unhappy princesses are they're all learning that stuff and they imposed it on each other does femininity go with being a woman no but that's a gender course right hang on that's a gender thing now gender can be anything you like it can it's entirely cultural but unfortunately sex is not entirely culturals it's something you're born with whether you like it or not and most of us who grow up to be women who have our first period 12 13 14 whatever traumatizing otherwise a body we thought we knew becomes smelly and dirty and different and then the boys come along would be watching pornography and say that we're not groomed we have to remove our body hair and so on we're going to spend our lives removing body hair that's femininity which is the fake version of femaleness female is real and it's sex and femininity is unreal and it's gender and it's a role you play and for that to become the given identity of women is a profoundly disabling notion but in the forty eight years since she wrote the Female Eunuch when you first took these notions apart both of the difference between femininity and being female do you feel that women have you know so rather disappointingly conforms to femininity or have they followed your lead I would be very disappointed if they followed my lead that would make me tear my hair you know I'm I'm not a cultist I'm not a charismatic preacher there hasn't been any real divorce or femininity and being female has been for some people there I mean there was in China you know in China during the Great Leap Forward men and women were indistinguishable they looked exactly the same now that's made very easy because they're the same height now in our race our mixture of races speaking of basically Aryan men are bigger than women characteristically women s are shorter so it's hard for us to pretend to be men and it's been one of the things that breaks my heart when I see female-to-male transsexuals that they're they have tiny hands and tiny feet and I think just as male to female transsexual have enormous hands and enormous feet and I think here you are you've taken male hormones you've grown a little beard your hair is cuttin you're wearing men's clothes and here these tiny hands and feet that are giving the game away we don't have the drugs to give you that would make you sprout big hands it's in some ways a delusion it's a delusion that you can do it I mean if you think about it why would you think I'm in the wrong body if I cut bits off it it'll turn into the right one there's no logic there it can't work if I have a if I have a pen on the chopping board and I take off its leg it doesn't turn into a cock I'm you can't do it I'm really interested in the young people who didn't feature and Gender quake the other day other young people have decided they don't want to be any sex who have their secondary sexual characteristics suppressed they removed breasts they removed penises and testicles and they want to be like angels sexless and I've actually written about it long ago Brown about the time of the female Unicode I wrote a story about what would it be like if when you met people you didn't know what sex they were and and you would get to know them and fall in love with them and you still wouldn't know what was likely to happen when you became interent he would have to discover it and I thought that would be amazing so what what do you think is going on there no why do you think we're seeing more of this publicly well I think there are lots of reasons one is that we have to have fewer children so we might begin to not practice reproductive sex as much we would actually do more polymorphous so you think this is sort of an evolutionary step well you better hope that it is because we really have to have fewer children the earth can't support us anymore and we've already got same-sex marriage interesting I don't know I think same-sex yes marriage not marriage has bad history and I'm not a I'm not a champion of marriage of people owning each other I'm profoundly against that but if we're if what's happening is we're learning different ways of pleasuring each other that don't involve the exposure of an an ovum to sperm and it's arguable that's already happening but you would hope it became not an imitation of slam bam thank you ma'am that it actually became more intelligent let's move on a few decades I have to to the changing the shoes which is which is the book that you've you've rewritten revised and and and put out again and it's about women aging in the menopause as it says on the front why is this the book that you've revised because a great deal has happened since it was first published there are the two great cohort studies the one in America and the one in England and they were very badly designed they got terribly mixed up over their terms of reference they terrified a whole generation of women and they got the wrong results because they'd set it up the wrong way there are plenty of people like valve Odeon for example who is bitter about this who says that because of what happened in that case women have died of diseases that we knew how to prevent and he's bitter about that I'm he makes he makes a case I'm not convinced by it I think I wish it hadn't been badly designed but what we really needed was a much stronger commitment to better studies looking for specific things that we're trying to understand they tried to do it on the cheap and this is the story of women that you think you can do it that way and they absolutely couldn't so women lots of women who might have got benefit from replacement steroids dumped them and were too terrified to use them again and that was a sad thing but it was a direct consequence of the fact that the replacement steroids HRT as we call it had been oversold ridiculously oversold they were not the elixir of youth they were deal with specific problems connected with now what I can't say is estrogen deficiency because we never proved it but it's to do with the fluctuations in Eastridge and secretion in the body of a menopausal woman who could be anything from 30 to 60 so that's another vagary that we can't fix so I want to say yes replacement steroids have a role but be skeptical and don't take them for any longer than you need to are you gonna revisit any of your other works and revise them no the Female Eunuch doesn't need rewriting no no no it needs another book somebody else's better book no no it's very much a book of its time and it's not a very good book I'm perfectly happy to see somebody else write a better one it's a bit disappointing that its own reading list for kids at school still okay thank you so much has changed wrong with it I don't believe what is wrong with it oh it's it's too literary because that was my Melia I didn't have much acquaintance with the real world I was a bookish person and now I think the academic character of so much feminism the fact that it went into university courses rather than into industry and and politics it because it's become ridiculous just in the last few minutes can I just ask you a few little sort of advice questions then advice advice questions as you know for people bringing up children how should they raise their sons and daughters to think of femininity and masculinity because you know a lot of parents I've got young children a lot of parents will say god it's amazing you know how they sort of they they fall into their gender roles how the girls just want to play with dolls how boys and girls want to play separately how the boys want to play sports and the girls don't I mean is all of that nonsense have you got to try actively to try and break that as a parent I think you're on a prayer to nothing I just it's not going to happen I've been watching little girls because I'm fascinated by this pinked business and I think pink stinks it's an awful chemical color I wish it was some other nice color and I realized that in many cases there it's a kind of guerrilla activity there are forming a little bunch of stormtroopers in favor of pink and they want their hair very long dangling in their faces I mean the children have grown up in my house or got the haircut because it used to drive me mad that they had hair in their mouths and they're trying to eat and all that sort of things I would come with scissors and they would have a little basin crop and they all wore pheeba overalls and the funny there somebody gave one of my god children a doll and she threw it down the stairs and I found myself saying oh poor doggie why did you oh sure she's not playing mothers today good honor boys on the other hand have a really challenging life career ahead of them they have got to join male groups and they've got to learn their place in the pecking order and they're going to be bullied and manipulated and negotiations will go on and where ultimately we are hominids rather than than Homo sapiens so they're very like they're very much like egg communities where you've got the silverback who's the ruler then you've got all the Junior Apes who are trying to jockeying for position then you've got the ape that's locating people by being funny then you've got all the women by the way a foraging for this group of useless men who are playing games of who's who's top ape who's top dog and you don't think you can break that cycle you can and the result will be you'll get children who choose intermediate roles so your sons may decide that they're going to be gay effeminate whatever and that to me that's very interesting to me because I think it is a knowing rejection of masculinity as miserable as cruel and ultimately very damaging and we don't do assessments on men who kill themselves as to their you know masculinity factor but I've always regarded suicide as a crime of anger rather than sadness we get we live with sadness it's the thing around us all the time but when you lay violent hands on yourself it's because you're angry and I think that's masculinity is involved there I think masculinity is really hard and once upon a time we needed it maybe when we were fighting hand-to-hand but we need now to somehow get over it because it's turning lethal in modern society or you probably cheat up another conversation that I have to invite you back for but Germaine Greer thank you very much indeed for that well it's a pleasure thank you




Comments
  1. Why is no one defending Mrs Greer unfair treatment by the Doctorate committee that turned her down because of her opinions of transgenders?

  2. She’s my hero!!!! She speaks for many of us with the same ides but not the same level or exposure.

  3. You're completely CRAZY😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤😂

  4. I’ve just found out and have listened to this woman. I think she makes many interesting points and has a right to her opinion, but I don’t agree with her making ‘rape’ seem ‘not so serious’ and that it doesn’t make some women (or men also) feel ‘destroyed’ by such a horrid, atrocious act.

  5. For f#cks sake. 50 Shades of Grey outsold some of the Harry Potter books. I soon expect it to show up in all hotel nightstands.

  6. Its amazing what she said about working for lower pay because you're working for passion and that's what drives you more. I'm a veterinary nurse of 10+ years and we are so incredibly underpaid – as is most of the animal industry – but we just stick to it because we love animals…. very interesting. A great video, very fascinating.

  7. She says Female Eunuch is a book of its time, and (perhaps over-modestly?) that it wasn’t very good. And the one on the table, that has been revised, sounded very specific in its content. If I wanted to get an introduction to modern feminism, adhering to the style of thinking demonstrated here by Greer, is there a single book you, my fellow YouTube commenters/viewers/time-wasters 🙂 could recommend?

    To be clear: when I refer to Greer’s thinking style, I don’t mean content and what she believes. Rather, I mean her apparent respect for logic, rigour, critical thinking and healthy skepticism, and so on.

    ASIDE: I’ve asked this kind of thing of feminist friends before, some who are academics in the field, but I usually run into a fatal problem. Instead of being referred to an introductory book or paper, as I requested, instead I am told that my desire for ”logic, rigour, critical thinking and healthy skepticism” is itself a major part of the problem. Apparently those things are a part of some male patriarchy and until I stop wanting them, I am essentially unredeemable from my male prejudice. Since that response itself relies on logic, rigour, etc, I find myself unable to know what to do, other than sit in the corner, rock back and forward, and slaver. 🙂

  8. Well…rape can ruin ur life bc u told someone no they if bored u n they did it anyway. Then u grow up scared of men n scared to go out at night after ur job. The guy cld b very aggressive n beat u during.

  9. Women get paid the same amount for doing the same work here in the UK in the overwhelming majority of cases. Men and women are different. Men on the whole provide physical security and sacrifice to protect women and children. Women on the whole help to ensure that the family unit is fed and watered. That’s not set in stone, men and women can live by any code they wish, but generally speaking there is a reason men and women tend to follow different paths and it’s not entirely as a result of gendering. Look at Sweden. Men and women have equal maternity and paternity rights, and yet despite this women tend to choose to stay at home and look after children, whereas men tend to work longer. There is literally nothing wrong with this, and there is literally nothing wrong with people performing gender roles that are typical OR atypical of their gender. I’m saying this as a liberal left-leaning man who has a career in a field that is overwhelming female.

    Men and women are different but equal.

  10. GORDEN BENNET!!!…..INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION ON TV!!!!!….Many thanks Germaine and Krishnan…(and channel 4).

  11. This new "utopia" that the hard left is so determined to bring to pass is, if it succeeds, going to fail so miserably that its like will have never been seen in the history of mankind before. I love this woman's frankness.

  12. Très intelligente. Je l'adore. No, women don't want to become men. This world that was built by men is mad and violent. I agree with most of her ideas. Mainstream media would never listen to her. She is too intelligent and a real feminist.

  13. The moment she said you could sell a car "without 50 screws" but not "without upholstery", I remembered why Men are mostly in charge. I would rather have a car with the seats torn to shreds ( which I had btw ) than to lose a wheel mid trip due to a lack of screws…

  14. THANK YOU! Finally – a respected feminist coming out and speaking to this issue – and making SENSE. Thank you Germaine! I love you!

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