all right what is going on ladies and gentlemen welcome back to another episode of the two savage for Democrats podcast episode 162 we are going to be debating communism versus capitalism today Brian go ahead do the intro what's up guys so we're going to do a debate for you now this is really highly anticipated to be I've been Iping it up because it's a lot of fun it's been fun the last few times we've had Pat on I think it'll be a lot of fun again so we'll go ahead and we'll introduce everybody in just a second I think Dylan's doing his little plug so more people we actually have a lot of people watching right now we had like 20 people waiting just waiting to watch this almost like they're waiting for bread and a bread line but anyways oh I could actually get this oh yeah actually get it no so we're about to do that right after Dylan post then everyone will kind of introduce themselves and we'll get into a little crossfire type deal going on so do you guys want to just kind of say your name your Instagram and then we'll kind of do our thing and then we'll get into the actual debate okay you want to go first at that you've muted you have to unmute yourself hello my name is Holden Patrick of Ally and my Instagram username is uh IG machine broke and there's dots in between but that that's temporary I'm going to change that soon can you say cuz I'm like a little more pleased did anyone hear what I just said we can hear you it is very quiet okay I'll speak louder thank you wait you want me to say that again just yes they've gone well know that the world will what else is there to defer didn't mean to say okay next guy then alright my name is Danny my Instagram is young dot Lennon play or worse so to speak uh I'm a Marxist Leninist malice and that's about it so I'm going to go over yeah and credit to him I thought I was being savaged my fucking Trump hit in the back and like my economics book of inbred meme hahaha I'll take it an lt1 this one so that um beyond that one good so we can start off the debate here what what should we start off with I know I know how about that start right into it right saying like a Marxist Leninist Horan why don't we get right into because like one thing that I kind of want to pick your guys's brand on is your issues with like the United States in the economic system we have now obviously it's been incredibly successful so I'm curious to see what you would be world's economic system hardly limited to America no I'm asking the United States system what would you like to change about you well we don't see capitalism as limited to America we see it as a global notion maybe mine in North Korea well yeah but would you worry that there are certain aspects of capitalism that are unique to the United States well yeah but I mean just because I'm so they're so Brian without the system that's a state so if you granted there aspects that are different the United States and just answering questions we articulate see how all four of us are from the United States it's somewhat relevant and you haven't really touched on at the last few times and I kind of want to press you on it because I want to know what you think obviously all four of us live in the United States most of our viewers are from the United States and it's been incredibly successful so I'm curious what about our economic system would you change well I think first of all we just have to establish what exactly is wrong with the system for example sixty-two percent of Americans can afford say a five hundred dollar break job for their car fifty percent cannot afford a four hundred dollar emergency 50% furthermore has no savings at all and 70% of what fifty percent of Americans just okay 70 percent have less than a thousand dollars saved and furthermore fifty percent of Americans make less than thirty thousand dollars a year which generally speaking is considered just below the living wing around snow let me ask you this though not even close enough about four times tell me the number of American access to a grocery store that's stocked with food quite a lot well over the magnetic they war defend you it's it's ninety five percent they all sure you know how many Americans are high speed internet a lot that's Valley 5% okay but here's the thing is that I think you're missing though there's two points to it number one we'll hang on a second because you have to let me finish there's two things that kind of need to be established number one the poor in the United States have it far better off than most people on other developed nations overwhelming ninety-five percent have access to Internet 98 percent have no need for food 97 percent have a refrigerator microwave an oven as well as air conditioning ninety nine percent have access to a car that they drive so I mean if you compare that to most other nation so it's pretty good and then although you must remain vertical I really think you want a thing you look very picked another thing you cherry picked and you failed to mention is the fact that 70 percent of the American people will be in the top 30% of the income bracket for at least one year in the life so we have a very fluid income mobility and that's objectively not true it's well known that objectively lays clear according to the Congressional Budget reporting mm ah 2014 at age 12 give you a say objective it's no no no no no no now let me speak let me know if this is clearly objecting to so the Congressional Budget Report is a budge completely bipartisan 2015 page 12 chart 3 look it up yourselves it doesn't mean much when both of the parties are going to support capitalism in the end no let no it literally means it's proving my point because I'm getting you can object this point if you're gonna object to Brian's point can you prove another yeah can you please tell me where the Congressional Budget Report went wrong that's all you have to do where is it a thing along that my partisan makes it totally non by it's a goal come on you hard you want to subscribe everybody has some sort of bias but like Danny huh but I do nothing about it so I think he said well I swing both ways it goes are working Democrat left whatever you want to imagine all it's supposed to do is there's a real left-wing in America the Democrats well that's whether Scotsman trousers got really does that respond to our Scotsman fallacy that's not a myself I did you can't say no we all have heard you you I've been muted you can talk wonderful well here's first excuse me yeah yeah like Daniel a hopping a tree no leftist cause you know I was amazed ethology no you know what I should really do something very good now I would say the first thing first of all is that you can talk about how Americans have a higher standard living the most of the patients but that ignores the fact that poverty is in and of itself relative for instance if you make enough money even in America for instance if you make say fifteen dollars in a rural City you're going to have a lot more than say it's going to cost a lot more to live in New York City on that salary and furthermore I would also like to add on the topic of say well my quality is there we should we should also discuss first things first about balls okay you're not cutting back on what on laws of competition and the first thing that we should have to establish is I think we can agree that capital is the driving for sorry capital is the driving force of the economy for instance say as a Social Forum is mobile it is the driving force of the system now when it comes to competition generally you want to have lower prices in order to say encourage more consumers to go to your firm right and so the thing about them generally you do though know generally how quality doesn't really matter that's so stupid you're right none of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life so are you really enough $5 are you saying that low costs for basic consumer goods like safe food or lower don't I see not only quality it does some of it I'm not boring though it is the tool use power how about objectively the most important quality means nothing right here huh so I have my own writing bikes instead of a car explain that one to me officious but all of it does matter alright thank you i here's eating no no no no here's the thing is that generally you do one side lower cost comes in on four goods that's not good in general goods in general like you're comparing no no no no because you're talking about to demand really literally convened that now you're talking about to do you would have done no no you're talking about comparisons between two different commodities I'm talking about two commodities of the thing pricing day this is transportation right no no but they right no no they know they have different uses no they had my right or is it no no they know their trenches are written there but they also still just said I was right they also have different uses say for instance a car can have more storage than a bike they all have different uses but we're talking we're talking we are talking about competition are you dodging my question or no I am do not serve the same purpose which is transportation we get like the word you can draw there because we also those right they also still have different uses in another self a car is not that have nonsense right air conditioning in a car right and that's another fertility or that they also have different utilities then that's that's not what you said you're moving the goal posts no do you not know you absolutely are you can't change the road all they have different utilities yeah are they wrong then I'm right that I'm wrong then all right now you're talking about different utilities that's what I've always been talking and I also I want to correct you on income inequality cuz I have my sources right here Danny have you come to say about that we could talk this further and I'm going to say this further is that we're talking about competition between firms that are producing the same good a a good store company produces a widget and another company produces the same widget now generally if you want to attract more customers to buy your widget you would want to have lower cost to attract them because generally speaking the lower the cost the more people are going to be able to afford no no that's not necessary that actually isn't true there was a study that came out by I think was I forgot exactly who did it this is recently I don't have it like sourced here but I'm writing it for show these comment we don't think that's well that makes no but what but essentially what it showed is that most times Americans are willing to pay you're correct less but the quality also has to be there so if the quality of the product and they're so like if you go out let's say you want to buy right and you're going to buy a car for let's say you want a limousine business okay you buy a limousine you don't want your limousine to break down in the middle of the road just because it was cheaper you want to a better limousine so when it comes to things like it really depends on what they're buying it for if they're buying a broom they're going to buy the cheaper broom but as you get into higher price things like cars and yeah I mean they don't use evenly on your application powder you're correct when it comes to lower price items in general a household clean jelly most people aren't going to be folks most people as established don't have savings most people are making any no even that like Rick I do want to touch on that the the reason that most Americans aren't saving is the that is a failure I think of us rather than the system we have I think less people are saving money they're waiting till her older to save money I think less people are concerned about the the future and another problem is a lot of Americans say that they aren't saving as much money because of how much they have to pay in taxes and because of the government so now we need to understand that those other people are saving because they grew up a dollar no no according to found el cuñado I got subjectively like paying well according no no no no according to alternate it says here quote lack estate alternate younger notes who went from a five point what was her source alternate which sites P research goes savings banks and the two economists and manual phasing gabriel zucman who they say since the bottom half of the distribution always owns close to zero wealth on net the bottom ninety percent wealth share is the same as the shared wealth on below okay I've got an article for me here I've got an article from The Economist here of ejective Lee that says it fifty seven percent of Americans say that they don't have savings number one because they feel like the government takes too much money for them taxes and they can't afford to save and they most of them blamed government for these issues right so so they might never get that's not object I also have a question for I have a question for you would you agree and it may be somewhat of a strong man because would you agree inequalities of byproducts of biology uh all that depends does this no no no no not another knows I know I'll let you describe say you know once we buy my meeting in a second because I have to mute him real quick because he's wrong so one thing you have to understand is a theory of biology which is evolution you don't have evolution without inequality so you're objectively wrong saying that and I have to you as I'm s you're never going to be able to read you're never got a tonight when you go ahead burn sorry no go ahead let's say from an educational point of view I had to correct you there because it's biologically illiterate and you're never going to be able to fix the IQ problem which is that generally speaking and actually the majority of the time people with higher IQs tend to be more successful create more goods and the people with lower IQs tend to be in the bottom ring taking things from people hierarchies so when you have a system that's in the cart before the horse you have to prove that this is the win say intelligent I ever lose them you don't know but you know not I cannot deny that a genetics IQ IQ I did I send in a case five percent genetic and that is objectively true you can look it up on almost that I know what I throw it absolutely is right it's not only about it's not there's no way that's 50% environmental that makes no sense it absolutely does because most explain me how how is it 50 percent environmental works well here we go this is a coincidence printed in literacy project ORS here this is a Quran I got one I just googled it IQ is mostly inherited 86 percent how smart you are doesn't depend on how your parents raised you a new study conclude sort of housing for you purely is according to the early IQ page where you this is literally the IQ page the only time it contained a child's IQ is you can raise it a little bit when they're young and their brain is developing but there's a very young age and you can't raise it by the many points it pretty much you fundamentally divest in what I came out I cannot knowledge I don't think I was able to solve that right and this is going to be influenced by different social factors around you for instance if you're feeling well as I pointed out with my son I'm not now the denied I finish let me finish okay finish finish finish I'm argument they people who are living in poverty are going to have to be dealing more so with the stress of living in poverty and their stress it's well known doesn't just go away afterwards do you think that somehow stress and its effects on the brain is going to able to affect mental capabilities in some way everybody in counter to that I have two counters to that number one as I mentioned earlier and you haven't refuted our class our economic class is incredibly fluid like I mentioned before and number two no IQ has no relation on stress like I said here environment plays very little row in fact it says here it plays a little to no role it's almost it's almost entirely genetics and I don't see how you could almost every study suggests that and even leftist like Sam Harris can see I said Harris left if he's not a Marxist but he's the best wait guys by far the most out of letting everybody talk I think like we're talking over each other or not it's and Google Hangouts cuts people out so we need to like I think we should do a better job of just kind of letting everyone ow make a point uh fuck I forgot your name what's your name I will first off I think you should either counter my claim on IQ or you should just concede let's see here's what we should do and then we like that's it let's just boot right here make your point on IQ and then we'll let him respond to it uh I mean first of all like you can just go yourself to like psychology takes about how socioeconomic factors influence these things you can't just downplay the role of society uh generally speaking yes it is for the most part fifty-fifty most sub studies all make for them so that you've only shown say one source on this when we mile if I go say Psychology Today um I believe education today to said something similar and generally so kind of connects point it would merrily the ITU's this is literally the IQ website so let's say they're the authority of the site let me explain something really creepy I can K where Evan exactly when it comes to my quote there's different just different forms of IQ and to take an official one requires a lot of money and you have to take a while and there's different they fund money into it like they study it this is essentially they're sorting on theirs welcome class important to remember when you're talking about IQ okay most IQ and you mentioned okay I actually have a really good study this is from the American psychology Association they found that they can predict it seventy five percent of the time okay I got a sore is okay let me let me just make the point we judge IQs based on intelligence 30 years ago 25 years ago and we stopped doing that because there are certain groups of individuals who tend to score less and they consider that to be racist if we need to do IQs so it's much harder to get an accurate IQ test today than it was back then so but it is also different types of IQ tests there's Jim and Reza but it's objectively like there is no arguing it is it's definitely the majority of your IQ if you want to like it obviously different stuffings they have twin studies here I have I have twin studies right here that doing different studies are going to get different numbers but I would be willing to bet that if we looked up the majority of studies right now because I've done a lot of research into this because this is something important because I advocate for getting rid of the education system it is right now and basing it more than IQ based system but I I know for a fact and I've done a ton of research on this and Oliver right in front of me but we can we can look it up if I have to most studies will show you that over 65 percent of IQ is based on is hereditary and the rest is is environmental and it's I mean because it comes from its genetic it's a genetic trait that's passed down within your family that's why you see you know certain that's why they talk about I mean in fact I just read a story today on my show they're all and versus the University of Iowa this student at the University of Iowa and the student newspaper was he made this rant about cognitive privilege just a new privilege he invented and he was ranting because he thinks it's unfair that some kids are born with better IQs that they didn't deserve they didn't earn that IQ and so he thinks that's unfair so I mean I literally you can go look at my video on my main channel today I did a video on that I also have a government one here which is in a peer-reviewed study once again finds it around 84% so I mean there's several starting go back to this beta hand though for soft you can see this point and we can run or I can see this point because I didn't look into it well I'm not going to concede wrong I just hadn't Bob Lowe into it because this wasn't part of his evaded IQ we are we're arguing IQ has an impact on how successful you are and so it has an impact on genocide Ryan if you if you take government away let's cane with our imagine that we lived in an anarchist society completely honest if we lived in a society with no government the people with height to be producing more stuff more Goods the people with low IQ we producing nothing because the type of now because elicit subjective issue because if you look at the types and and this is not refutable right here what I'm about to say people with high IQs are better at fast paid jobs that change rapidly they're better Hale I keep well to an IQ test exactly people with low I problem that's and handling redundant jobs and as the successful people become more successful and create more things with higher IQs they will create technology that will make the jobs of the low IQ people redundant so in one one point I want to add real quick is I think a fundamental misunderstanding that people have on IQ is they think it's a test like they have in school it's not a test you just study for you memorize and you go and take it it's testing how quickly you can solve certain problems so it's not really something that's kind of difficult to study for you know so much for going it's very much so genetic if you were to argue like your GPA I would argue that is very environmental because if you study hard you can get a good GPA like that you can put hard work in into pretty well obviously if you're intelligent you have a high IQ you're at a huge advantage but IQ specifically in terms of how we test it and how it's used to project how people will function in society it really doesn't even make biological sense how would be environmental and that's why I study after study that I have here seems to point that and then as we're saying IQ kind of dictates how successful you'll be in society and a few for example take from the IQ give to the low IQ that doesn't make you any more efficient because they're low IQ they're not necessarily gonna be the best that knowing what to do with well the resources it's kind of inherent in recruiting let's let's move on I think we should get back to the question that Brian has to Regina I have a question about problem has this what is your problem with capitalism as it's being run in the United States like my casual a borrower well first we should probably figure out where capitals weren't the very least market economy originates from now is Danny a briefing Brian a brief quest go Brian do you believe in the equality of opportunity I believe everyone has the opportunity to do what they want depending now you don't have the same you don't start off in the same point obviously but you all have the same opportunity it's how you use what you have to get where you want opportunity it's not opportunity do I believe do I believe that we should take from people that have been successful and give it to people that aren't successful because that somehow makes it more equal no and as I've stated before and as I pointed out with the Congressional Budget Office report clearly if you're high queued you're able to escape poverty do you believe painful and frequently do okay but then you say earlier that that IQ is genetic it's very genetic yes so don't you think someone who was born poor you know a lot of their family could have been poor and thus for many generations they struggled we get edgy all right Kate no not I do not always you can't put someone to have our well education is not IQ like I said before that's a fundamental misunderstanding on what IQ is it's not education I choose how quickly you can solve something it's literally hell if I give you a puzzle the how quickly come to credit where that puzzle is your IQ yeah you don't study for an IQ doesn't just take I mean that's why you can literally give an IQ test to a three-year-old get the same results as you'll get when they're 80 I mean because that's it's just like it's not like well who won the second world war it's literally it's not like you have yeah it's not how much information you can retain although people with higher IQs are retaining information but anyway let lets go back to the first question if you guys saw an answer this what is your problem with SoCal is it like exploitation or what you like yelling with you first let's talk about the origins of the market economy and I were the way we lie until I had to add that Jack Ryan can you directly answer my question is you believes all people I'd be born equal yeah no because you know you're not born equal you idiot because of evolution with really or equal or you know evolution no there's no evolution better why ever had equal on no one's and everybody has equal opportunity everybody is born with two if every one was born equal how do you evolve why does evolution happen have you taken biology no but why did why is that do believe it would be ideal for people to have the same opportunities when they're born and maybe and how do you do that I got my quotes how are they work imagine one question for fuck's sake what does any of this have to do us building let's just get back to class yeah ask Jim yes let me ask let me ask angel Pat's question so are you asking everybody be born equal because no they shouldn't be born equal I mean the reality is if you want evolution you need inequality look and I don't see how you would all right let's just let Danny question or not let's just let Danny speak war i hangovers well to the origins of the market economy now for the most part it can be traced back to the axial age being from 800 BC to 680 prior to that we had more or less a form of credit a symmetric unquantifiable mutual exchange of goods we're more like fuckin don't read Wikipedia just answer the question with an another problem with the United States and they don't want to I know it's perfect capitalism is amazing but we know we have to go through the history and oh we go this is just you filming me you're going to go may I do it or to understand the system we need to know where it fucking comes from if you want to talk about history clearly okay I get caught in it because you still think I work like what's fucking within a friend yeah next let's go back to this because for the most part up in Mesopotamia social trust is what we do everyone to death we still have to discuss this because we want to talking everyone tell me behalf we're getting there but we I don't give out damnable history absolutely do you're not going to ran for 15 minutes you can add on that Mike what are you to 92 sirree Bob wait Adam so I can receive look at dumbest thing ever just answer the fucking question what is your garage let him hog issue a home Iran he's willing not there right now we're not going to be there for 15 minutes fucking family fucking Bible not difficult if we understand the system and what is issues we have to go our workers exploited yes or no answer my question uh do you must why now can you like can you let him finish this story well oh I don't want her ass fucking story I want his pretty well too bad because this is important well no I died and fortunately we could Fraser's are exploited you said workers are exploited right for instance points are dueling times the facets of what marks Lane di water rinse then or we could explain time preference what about it how do you explain that phenomenon that's been completely accepted by economists you're gonna have to explain further you can't just say oh I don't know what do not know what time preferences no I know what it is okay then explain some notes for example a worker for example workers and capitalists have different time preferences workers you can't treat present Goods against future Goods except that at discal I mean that's pretty self-evident so with workers for example they would trade away potential future goods for present good for example if you're building a car workers get a check every two weeks or so instead of waiting till the cars finish the capitalists takes the risk the capitalists eventually profits off that because of that I mean it's kind of like if I gave you if I asked for a loan of $1,000 you both can answer this if I asked for a loan of $1,000 and you knew within one year's time I would pay you back in full 100% would you accept that deal yes or no yes are you an idiot well so your water is I&I dollars you're going to loan me a thousand dollars just to get a thousand dollars back in one year do you know our target that's right that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life you wouldn't think what the fuck did you gain from that you were just out of thousand dollars other than here oh I'm daddy with what I have so you're just going to give away a thousand dollars for the fuck of and you're not going to have it for a year and you're going to okay I think your point ad hominem get to your blue one out okay the point is anyone with high six would not take that deal they'd be like no I'm not giving you a thousand dollars now for you to give me a thousand dollars after it's been inflated it's actually worth less money a year from now instead I'll give you a thousand dollars now you pay me eleven hundred in one year's time that's essentially what we're talking about with time preference workers acknowledge this capitalist acknowledge that and they meet each other's time preference this is a phenomenon completely accepted by the social scientists so I'm curious your response to that and I'm still dumped on the ticket should I even pay you back the money because technically the money of the your property is my property it's our money's exactly – take as much money as I want from you I only have to pay that shit back money is actually X Y a so how about this I'll I'll just I'll just assume you guys concede that point because I don't think you're too aware of worker exploitation theory and yourself so workers but if you have a counter for workers being exploited give it if not we need to move on well like I was going to say before the essence and the core more or less of what Marx's critique of capitalism is is really my question of prime preference I'm getting there again this afternoon the court Nikora what no no the core of what creates more or less he exploited inhumane form of capitalism and Marxist critique of capitalism is Marx's theory of alienation and the estranged labor in which man is divorced from say the products of his own labor divorced from society in a hyper competitive market and labor doesn't create value um what does supply and demand that's what the law of supply and demand is sir well no now if you want to review the law outlined demand I know what the law of supply and demand is but here's the thing is that you don't for instance demand itself is more or less as opposed to a downward skew it can shake any shape due to income changes I believe Steve King talks about this here and can we avoid another financial crisis changes an income change demand preference because people with higher levels of income aren't going to have the same levels of demand and as such demand curves can take many different shapes this is known say and mostly post-keynesian circles and supply and demand in general are not able to create valued you want me just to kind of explain it a little bit better because I don't think you're understanding and I don't want you to go off-topic on something that's completely irrelevant or that's not good for your case it's not a good phrase I'm trying to help you to make it better can I add something from earlier is when you said about lending me a thousand dollars no no that we agree on from lab at one point of time okay so I don't think you fully understand the point I'm making with supply and demand and I don't want you to continue on a misconception because that's bad for your argument to be quite frank it bores me so would you like me to clarify my argument where you could better refute it well I get what you're saying is that supply and demand is what creates value demand more or less representing say the value that people hold for a commodity but value and out of itself as we understand it as Marxists refers to the social relations behind a commodity a commodity in exchange for instance let me ask you something does the value of a diamond matter if you found it just walking uh you know down the road or if it was mine for a thousand days the stage is randomly stumbled upon the diamond is that time and less value valid knows about diamond still had to be mined up somewhere you know well not even zero not necessarily now let's say a diamond just kind of you found it just walking and you picked it up and there it is it wasn't really mine is that diamond evening not worries but is thinking almost a we're going to give you this example okay we're going to give you this example let's say you mind for one day and you found a diamond is that diamond worth more than a diamond you found that took a thousand days to buy no it's not because what the Martinus law value deals with is the social commodity in general the value of a commodity to society for instance say the reason why a mud pie which is what you're getting at the mud pie argument no I want a mud pie now what you're doing is the Mud Pie arguments like why isn't a mud pie valuable if they took about a lot more value than say a diamond to make and Mudpie zero reason is a nice surprise it is is the reason is is that the law value or as it's commonly called and I think improperly the Labour theory of value generally speaking are socially necessary use of labour time yes it deals with the social pay you realize the another way without do you really not know to you right now because that's the exam rule I everyone goes right here to hoody let me get into it Green Deal lies social necessary is not well-defined and it's literally a roundabout process of supply and demand uh more or less literally not well-defined so you're literally conceding to my argument as I say now because so did not around about process as applying a man come on I actually have roundabout argument so please know cuz I for example let me give you an example let's say a worker spent his time tying a knot in a piece of cord and he does it as effectively as possible you're arguing with that position because that's the position mark row slightly later on because it worked for him that tying the knot wasn't a socially you know necessary use of his labor time the problem is what's socially necessary depends entirely on the demand of the finished product so in this case is our knotted cord which isn't so it's essentially a roundabout in precise description of supply and demand which was the point I was making earlier literally just changing it around and trying to make it spline demand to get away from what Mark said in volume after three solos for you and I have this actually down right here I know you don't know actually right here generally speaking there's a strongly 1014 please repeat that the roundabout processes behind Amanda that's all it is and if you also want in a contradiction between volume 1 and volume 3 of Das Kapital exaggerated form a problem that's now that's not the transportation problem it's exactly they drastically change the definition between thousands on volume one takes some commodity production as granted or sewing three regardless um do two regions I have notes right here I have capital right here I have it – why would this on say look at square we go in marks 1906 page 51 to 52 um I can read you what he said he died in 1882 was it published no no he says this is the but no there's different volumes of oil I agree this is volume republished after Mark stud this is the lam one this seminar founded by possible to accurately measure the value of a skilled laborer by looking at the exchange value of a production of skilled labor as against the product of unskilled labor that makes no sense unless he believes economy the commodities 10ab exchange values at pure labor values but then n volume three the ideas abandon that the individual exchange values tend to equal abstract social necessary labour time so that radically contradicts Volume one of capital where he says and I quote alright know that then I just read you early of capital one in page 51 to 52 I mean either the products do exchange in the long-run proportion to the labor attached to them in which case the equalization of games of capital is impossible or there's a neutralization of the games of capital in which case it's impossible for the production to continue to be exchanged in proportion of the labor attached to them yeah this is transfer ah the first thing first as we recognize that profit has two different sources of it has two different sources aggregate profits of two different sources being so you're not going to is fine this is I think you want to move on to maybe another topic I really think we should I think yes tired of being interrupted well not address they're just little actually I go back into the origins of capitalism because that's important dude it does matter yes it's all about the origins of capitalism we said what did you problem with Kosmos right now I and we have all the way not origin to do that the problem is capsules Ellen if you want to here's here's the deal I'll let you guys go on your little history ant i it's it's all right doing I think we handled those last two sections I think we'll just let them go on there okay go ahead talk about the history I was and then fucking at the end it explained what's your problem with capitalism is what you could have just said instead of telling us about BC so we have to do this because in the dying God created heaven together right the origins of the market economy at least as we understand it today originated around the axial age of 800 BC to 600 AD and prior to that was a form of more or less socially trust social trust ruled mutual exchange and this is the case until Mesopotamia for instance you do dishes I'll mow your lawn this week but eventually the trust was phased out in favor of credit the credit was represented in the form of coins and the need to quantify these things was figure out an exact measurement of how many days wanes at one point decided and notice I'm so glad you're giving us this lecture right here's we just think of the sundial you do well this is where I can predict the future I think at some point they'll change to a fiat currency am i right wouldn't go yeah the Sun but this is talking about the origins of money in debt but anyway your question really quick before you go on cuz I don't wanna go to fake what do you think about the Sun theory of value I think I ask answer have you heard of this 1/3 of value no but it did give me cancer so it did create something and out of it I have anyway ever it actually creates something anyways you can keep going about your ran in cancer but eventually the trust says that in favor of credit and Lakota was represented in the form of coins and the need to quantify these things will figure out an exact measurement of how much one owes and others say you give you someone your daughter to do whatever with as is the case in those days but the question becomes how do you know how much this person you are serving owes you and so this is where coins come in because contrary to popular belief the coin things were invented not as the media of exchange but it's a representation of credit and furthermore later on the credit system would eventually be phased out in favor of currency as we get it today are you surprised that Moses money we're getting there empires would hire Murphy literally thing going on with five minutes but okay empires would hire mercenaries but they cannot use mutual trust a higher mercenary instead the mercenaries would be given a share of plunder usually being gold the market economy as we get it as we know it today came from States high and these mercenaries usually using stolen gold and so the claims from people that markets are some sort of natural phenomenon that emerged through say a barter economy and currency it was adopted fishin CR non fess the market the commercial markets loved by say right libertarians or anarcho-capitalists have their or a glad there's a lot of managers have rewards cat as the war and really erect that hand tap over there man good job regardless the commercial markets we have today more or less have their origins in this war and theft and not some sort of voluntary transactions or a natural occurrence through the complexity of a barter system and this gets into the issue of it is that it had to be based on this theft in order for it to exist in the first place and come into existence and this is well done Joe held anthropological evidence to about this for instance David gave us book debt the first 5000 years documents very much the history of currency it's using debt and how it has it currency as we know today has its origins in say ah this weren't theft and so that I would say is the biggest issue with at the very least market-based systems because ok wait can you repeat that again without doing the history now what is the problem they have a starting the end cap over there they have their origins in war and theft which is well documented through in anthropological and I'll hang on a second let's talk about war for a second you is it you're simply trying to get to the port way of capitalism's the cause of war correct uh I'm not sure I would necessarily say subscribe to more soldier I'm also saying yes that the war and in a sense led to Ohio Goguen I let go the creation hospitals of the market economy as I'll get it today not necessary just automatically biology behind it because like are you aware of any things go to war correct sure like they do there's a nineteen sure but we're not studying we're not dealing with orangutangs we are always early already like words no no because we are dealing with human societies human societies not act where do you think humans came from dipwad but not orangutangs we came from speedily not have a common ancestor or then I am Bradley will one answer with everyone I mean talking about you are you kidding me you know it's like a literally per se of biology walking there they tell you this yet we have a God how many genes mr. play with orangutangs yes that doesn't matter though because the societies don't act and so where did it come from ona another time you have to realize how the brain works there's different parts of the brain of function differently at different I think you're fighting ever coming back to the reptilian brain which comes from a shared ancestor right they don't have as developed as a brain as humans do but when when fighting and things like defending herself and those natural instincts to fight and defend those are using the same parts of a brain the orangutan yeah are the Iranian things going to work because of Ross cards don't have a central bank there yet it we're not I mean like I said I'm a tank we're totally mate is very violent very aggressive and territorial that's where we came from I mean I'm apparently uh the Russian uh biologists Peter Kropotkin documents more or less history of species mutually interacting as for their own benefit for survive well the elements don't do that but orangutangs will literally rip other orangutangs but what does orangutangs have to do with human society the because no no because you're not understood as we don't have funky it's just nothing anymore yes okay you're telling this oh no he's dead because Lauren fucking poison Mesopotamia okay like it's important to understand whatever right where one is not important to understand the origin that's right our brain evolved is that not important as well because there you better or a driver lieutenant no because you're acting as if markets ignore some some sort of natural occurrence when in fact oh I've never know known and network at all from a natural occurrence you would be honor evolved over time no no you have to show first of all that the social is not the natural and vice-versa through actions no if I ask you this why do humans why do we go to war why do we fight after you have that answer why do we have sex tell me why why a lot of age naturally play for a lot of reasons they don't know elderly if it's literally biologically related because everything's goals everything can go back to evolution why do we have sex why do we eat evolution I don't we go to your app war a lot of stress because of capitalism I think you saying capitals because of war yeah but but what Bob Ryan saying is that I just like to pull it Obama tours on what Brian is saying if it what Brian is saying is this a rip what Brian is saying is that H quit I guess we did won the debate what Brian is saying is that I want to get into economic calculation problem next if that's okay yeah well because you can talking overhead and yelling and it's okay you can never eat raw man fucking yeah let's be a little fair here I mean it went both ways so do you want to get into the economic calculation problem can you talk about a point refuting evolution well what I'm trying to explain is war and conflict as a byproduct of evolution and I don't know how you would even attempt to refute that because it's asinine to I mean unless your creation isn't what he was saying was because war came capitalism came from war not the other way around he's talking about Myrtle where did wait a minute in the fucking car does manifesto it talks about how for a communist system to work there has to be a revolt that's we're a violent revolution is that not how it fucking communism literally yes says so what the fuck if why you create old couples with certain comes from war they talk about a revolution for you even have communism so first of all they make the argument or don't but it's a terrible argument to make when you're a system requires a revolution okay what well he was saying capitalism came from war not the other way around okay where does communism come from revolution what is the red is one component where does low upm yeah but you can't criticize capitalism for coming from war on communism revolution in a war between two different states for verily ancient relay states and suitable States what a guard look what is their problem yeah we'll get into that I guess I kinda want to talk about the economic calculation problem at one point because it's something we've touched on before Pat and I don't know if you quite understand it okay let's go to our notes here what are you pulling your notes up on google documents okay what I meant specifically what topic a lot of what we're talking about okay economic calculation or what because I don't believe you can properly allocate resources because you haven't ever before and it doesn't make sense in theory you sound really depressed their diet I'm come on take my time here I'm not well I don't get any I'm hoping on an adroit if you would like to and I'm just kidding all the wait for the communist is sound very good kappa limiter so yeah basically do you want me to go on with my argument on economic calculation because and then maybe you can refute it while we wait for you to go find your notes really that's good I'm going to my bro like the issue is like those that are employed in the media production or social economy they're not able or intense eyes to experiment and new ways to make a profit so to continue leads to search for new ways to remake or to modify their employment to increase productivity as the private owners of the means of production would and a competitive economy and the services of the productions of the Manges dispensable guaranteed all the means of production would be collectively owned there would be no counterpart providing competitive to exist basically there's absolutely zero presser coming from potential competing firms and I guess a way to illustrate the operation the dark you would have let's assume a factory in a socialist society makes a particular kind of consumer good and we'll call that good good X okay so X assume that in order to make X only two kinds of inputs are needed right you need input a input B so then let's assume that there's three different methods for producing one unit of X okay yeah method one that requires nine minutes of a and ten units of B and ten units of a and nine needs to be for two and then three requires ten units of a ten units to be the from the question which which method of the factory would take an order produce one unit of X what's one of the most efficient one might argue that it makes sense to use fear resources as possible to make a given output since that would leave more resources over to do other things but this alludes to what economists call basically opportunity cost opportunity cost is how you do things to the most efficient way possible to where you forego something in order to gain something else which it's pretty self-explanatory we've got someone else drawing okay so if you were to use you know certain ways it would cause issues like for example that would require for factory through output the output method three if you look at method three for example where use the same units as B as a to make one unit of X then and you compare that with a then there's no way to properly tell which opportunity costs would be the most efficient because you're essentially operating completely in the dark without these mechanisms so my question is how do you do that because I I know you mentioned something about well the workers would own this doesn't really have anything to do with that there's no opportunity cost involved and how do you plan to do that without opportunity cost this is a fucking ìiím dude why can't we just get like a reasonable communist on the show that knows how to debate this is well it would be nice if the first is like no this is ridiculous there's not one communist out there this is not one it's insane it's literally insane we're sitting here it's a normal show I don't even know if you're here come on you wanna do a vodka welcome to gsmd box welcome to BFF two vodkas lady and gentlemen we have a couple topic tonight no this is insane I mean I just like I have visions of like arguments that only have to get to because we're reading history about Mesopotamia like it's just yeah let's see the history of like the Soviet yeah oh you're right like all right I'm back what did you hear anything I even said heard some of us so we're talking about innovation here in the history of existence oh no no we're talking about opportunity cost okay Wilson I'm almost talking about the history of existence socialism I think there will be something valuable to delve into the failures of other communist societies you mean Cole yeah okay if you want like for example I know one time you mentioned we can talk about like the Soviet election you mentioned that they add more the democracy to serve evening it's really good I remember last you made some argument also called dining this thing well I have a from dr. Robert conquests of Stanford University he describes a Soviet electric system as a set of phantom institutions and arrangements which puts a human face on the hideous reality a model Constitution adopted in the worst period of terror and guaranteeing human rights and elections in which there were only one Kennedy and 99 percent voted paradigm which has never raised any questions in opposition or absence and then I also have if I scroll down here I have an example of this guy who he was filling out his ballot in North Korea and because there's only one person on the ballot he wrote the word Khamenei and turned in his I'm not a mess ballot and then lo and behold the secret police banged on his door and he has to serve ten years in a labor camp and the freezing cold for putting comedy down instead of voting for Stalin again I think I mean objectively enough there's no fair voting that goes on in communist countries I mean it just doesn't happen you can't make it argument that it does okay so you're talking about the 1936 Soviet Constitution it was unleashed in the worst period now or as you said right yeah that's what you're saying from dr. Robert Cornel West no no that's not about yet as we said if you'd shut up for two seconds let me explain Muslim I was referring to I refused or quoted him okay you want to talk about men I gave the one fun to the comedy is that again because I was turning around and I talked about the colony we talked about the guy that wrote comedy on valiant was sentenced to 10 years in gulag ok well you see the thing about the dprk is here no I don't mean they know their photos so they don't ok I'm not gonna I'm not ok when it comes they are didn't the DPRK is because you called that how do they use so variable some because you caught an illusory alert you have you abandoned that counter-revolutionary viewpoint now to where it's okay to well before you said it's okay to kill people that are counter revolutionaries do so cling to that okay so there's a quote from maximilien robespierre saying do you want a revolution without a revolution of course during the French Revolution s the from newborn yes because the newborn rubbing the phone area French first Republic was threatened on all sides by the reactionary powers of Old Europe and so you're say had so you supported your horrible labor union was threatened all sides of the capitalist powers of the old world and of course they had to safeguard themselves of course they had so either remain is terrible idea daddy and they're really one to be a revolutionary terror against the enemies of the revolution put your Koran down for two seconds listen I get that you support it now and that you're justifying it because you're so indoctrinated to the cult of Marxism that you honestly think it's okay to kill people that disagree with you but I have to be honest I think it's okay to kill people who are trying to kill us and act against the revolution I'm not trying to kill you dumbass but if I was there you put gun to my head and overthrow me no the capitalists okay yeah but when were you going to do oh yeah you tell me okay but the October Revolution and like events that followed it were a war period I oversee koko you will be dealt with a psychopath you don't put people on fucking political prisons where you work into death because we disagree with you what do you expect from a revolution a revelant I don't exactly who I am violent and they happen any if I went Capital is like the Rivermen PAP paw pad here's the thing that there's many reasons to be whatever the fuck your name is the Muslim guy there's big reasons to be people you want to talk about Islam it was you people who funded the radical technology over the old IO flicked up in and Afghanistan Ronnie had later become the Taliban you want to talk about everyone we knew also got your half item right hey I'm an Afghan and in the 80s but no more than what not supporting it hey I let me until album killed less people than the 93 million people the communism is uh and again I've already played it like Jason Unruh made a video addressing IRS okay you and a study from Harvard University Hawaii University watching besides with the authors that simply as Columbia is an image that they made quote-unquote decimal errors well I have I have studies from Harvard here that has a 93 million Hawaii University basically every PhD historian saying you're wrong okay we can go over a country by country and we're people that are also has a PhD Andy rolling back your honor oh one second one second I don't want you to get away from the topic of this medicine because we basically said it's okay to kill people I disagree with you here's my concern I posed very legitimate concerns throughout the course of this debate regarding communism for example the labor theory of value I very very easily demolish right in front of you guys just sat her for two seconds with their job and said nothing worker exploitation time preference you guys act like you've never heard of it all these concepts and fundamental theories of Marxism IQ all these things are legitimate concerns I have with your theory and I think I'm completely reasonable to be concerned with it and the fact you have all these authoritarian genes that have been done in the name of communism and the fact that you have the audacity to say oh well you know you have concerns against communism I guess you got to go to the gulag you literally make your prison no I'm sure people are trying to buy zona or something no let me ask you real thing no no no your toggling the question you're dodging the question I would absolutely resist the communist movement I would be considered to you a counter revolutionary and you personally would send me to a fucking labor camp you're either a psychopath or you're so indoctrinating to the cult of communism that you're blinded and can't see basic morality it's disgusting I think you really need to reevaluate you're right but that's the basis of your ideas sorry I had to go can you repeat that again please I'm saying you're either a psychopath or you're so indoctrinated is the code of communism that you think it's justified to kill me because I disagree with you and I would go every single time against the Communists I would go for it fascist no no that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying and what are you going to do you know and you're going to do most revolutions of see on comedy on the revolutionaries have to use violence to stop the counter revolutionaries because so why revolutionaries can use violence to stop them when I don't whitehall yourselves an entirely because when I put comedy on the ballot you're sending me to the labor camp stop dodging it stop changing the words to counter-revolutionary you're talking to me right now all you a classified almost account of revolutionary to dehumanize me to clear your own morality when you send me away to dial I think that you were I'm saying there were counter-revolution what are you doing into social I McKenna revolutionary I'm not I'm not supporting communism so I were you going to debt so actively use every voice to speak out against it like I am now you think Stalin would put up with this so wait okay you don't happen to you know what task or what happened in Castro's administration when you had Lanza Rocco who was a blogger who went to demonstrate the ladies in white which by the way the ladies in white for those of you don't know they're basically wives daughters sisters of people whose husbands or brothers or whatever or political prisoners in Cuba and he went to go document him and oh yeah I forgot about oh you're going to talk about so this is I go ahead of her and kidnap so the police kidnapped him drove him 30 miles away put a gun to the back of his head made a me on the grass and said you're on notice stay away from the demonstration that's exactly what you do to me okay so no what would you do what would you do okay so let me ask you a question not kill my own people what what already simple concept generally speaking it's not a good idea to go kill your own people it something good idea to kill people period unless you have damn good reason you certainly don't kill them just because I disagree with you but you gotta realize yeah that's one of like the only way that a communist system can exist because there's no such thing as a habit anxiety so you have to get rid of everybody that disagrees you can create reality in force you're forced to use a sort of thing you're forced to use the brute government the brute force of government to enforce these ideas because people like me who understand high school economics I'm not great at economics I understand I would say basic college or economics you're saying in a way this seems to defy every wall of economic setup studied maybe it's not a good idea you know maybe it's got a bad track record with history or not you just look at the history of the Soviet Union you don't have to understand economics like you can look at the history of the Soviet Union and you can see and I have to Norris I have I have to be honest with you Pat you keep saying counter-revolutionary all you are trying to do is be humanize the people that disagree with your batshit crazy cult of communism if there's an you're losing that as a moral justification to kill people and it's disgusting so what I'm trying to say is with the time for debate came to an end and we were up in arms against each other what do you do if you're trying to I bring everything I have to defend myself we bring up things that kill do you do when the on wait was over in it this is this is important that we cover the Argentinian civil war of 1812 okay I heard I saw a video I know you're making it or don't know this because each other this is complete by your giving you I know making it up notice we can area maybe that I saw your video nice try this was a counter revolutionary movement okay Bible didn't gain independence until eighteen sixteen from because Spain was weakened from the Napoleonic Wars I know we don't know when I saw your video what happened is Jorge while we are they are war hey wha he know then or who I'm he ho okay and and Hamas deputies of them alright yeah nice trying on board on horseback took over when I want to the city of good one address your claim Devon point to good I was just going to say you mentioned what would we do in our up and on then or when we're on the battlefield the thing is I'm not trying to kill you because you're a communist I think you're very dumb I think you're very stupid and I think you're indoctrinated nicole's that you're the one that's advocating killing me I don't want to kill you you want to go be a communist you can go say in your things on Instagram how many know this is not going to go anywhere because anyone contemporary IQ knows it's absolutely horrible idea but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill you because of it you have to you have the opponent the only thing saving us is so many people know it's dumb and stupid you don't have the power to do it if you have the power to do it you send me we've said my family do gulag that's what I'm asking a question try ask your question Patrick yes and my name is Holden what's your what's your profile picture on Google Hangouts Cuba why is it exhibition wiser why they're fuckin one car on the road dude he's a guy we're really walking with groceries is one car like why don't they have a smaller diagram contrary he was able to get notes a people can't afford cards and there's lots of public you know the advent of Savannah do you know the average wage for workers in Cuba it's $20 I've covered that many times before is a bit harder than the rest of Latin America which is capital on what I'll get on the dependents opera buffa an America such as on health care when you look at how here development index 20,000 seventeen HTTP or okay let's go it up or it is how we haven't seven part no let me talk about your singer example bit infra mortality rate do you know how you define anthem mortality rate so worried that it's manipulate how does the D important blah blah blah but there's much more to it against them working more and more Catherine oh no no no it's not just the abortions do you know how long it takes for some for a child to die until it's no longer considered infant mortality no you have any idea it's one month you know that's like what the United States does so if the baby dies three weeks yes I've heard that many times before if I'm not using that you know I have not you know how are you boys we're gonna do realignment before they weight much lighter they're different and their definition of infant mortality no human for example the human when you look at human an index that takes into consideration infant mortality rate Cuba waits three days so if a baby dies five days after it's born they don't count it because they have to make it look good just shit go look at their house clean but says we'll look at a part of visit Michigan one part of the Human Development Index and also please little heart tastes like gross national income per capita and okay sure you wanna look at education for example and how easily manipulated is I've so are so sorry I never got the answer for very puzzling about nowhere do you know where Cuba ranks yeah because you obviously would know I want to answer your question about if I would kill you do you know where cute okay go ahead so that there's a there's I'm a counter whether there's a communist revolutionary in country X and you live in country X and this revolution since at the social state like Cuba China the USSR the state what do you do if you live in this country let's say me may that eighty four dozen reasons that's coach really I think how it reacts file no isn't can have your ax I would use freedom of speech and I would say you know what communism is an inherently flawed idea they can't calculate they can't allocate resources labor theory of value is an absolutely bullshit conspiracy that no economist takes seriously right left every school of thought rejects the labor theory of value for the most part 99% of them worker exploitation theories bullshit I've demonstrated this throughout the course of a I would continue to do that I'm a counter revolutionary by every communist measure I would proton to the streets I would take it sighs what are you going to do story this thing you're trying to stop the revolution hell yes but not violently I'm saying this is a fad I'm still going ok so even if people are trying to overthrow the government and peacefully you're still going to try to stop them and I would do the same to you I don't think I would kill you but I would definitely stand in your way well so for example if I put comedy on my ballot getting sent to the Gulag what if I go to a demonstration because every government there has done that Soviet Union has done it Red China do you know how many government operatives civilian operatives were in East Berlin one in three that means if you're in a family of six there's a high probability two people in your family were in the government and they were telling them everything you were saying so know that anything wrong rule in North Korea that literally once a week they have to get together and everybody has to report something that somebody else did or else they get in trouble so something that somebody else did wrong like they everyone's watching each other at all time that's why you don't see any revolts go on in in North Korea because they have to meet up once a week and everybody has to say one thing that somebody else did wrong or also they get in trouble so everybody can blame somebody else or something and break a large it's a genius and another it's time back we'll revisit a concern I have and another concern I have for example is I'm died when I was 19 I don't know what point you left uh we were talking about what you would do to protest uh can we get on this corner Romney has an actual communist that knows what they're talking about on here because this has been stupid half of it was just in being silenced one guy saying no no no no or just flat-out not saying anything this guy saying he wants to go kill people no but I'm a sucker to stop the revolution I'm going to stand in their way you know do you like the idea of a republic where people get to elect officials to represent them that was brought about by the French Revolution and incredibly iodine lie and behavioral revolution scene and many enemies many counter revolutionaries how to be guilty to give us the Liberty and equality and fraternity is a great idea always today yeah because there's no commonly people that disagree with me I don't like data I'm just killing people that you disagree with no but if you're going to stand and if you're going to try to stop but I don't know how to love you I end up so trying to stop you I'm posting I'm doing this right now to stop because I don't I'm going everybody stars you if you're going but you probably this Brian saying is going to use freedom of speech you're saying you're going to kill him that's the point you're going to try to peacefully overthrow a socialist state then I of course I'm going to have to stop you and maybe send you to jail so you can't do that because of course that's terrible so wait a minute wait a minute you're allowed to revolt that's but you can't happen the other way around like if the people's aside yeah when the people get pissed you got cool you get the cool my point is we're going to defend birthday and I answered the proper automated what I think this is the flaw look this is the flaw because your city are saying right now that it's totally okay for communists to revolt and take power but then when rational people say this is stupid we're going to evolve a camera bag and get rid of the Communist say no I only get to decide what's good for the people you realize nobody likes communism so you are a model that you have to throw people in jail that disagree with you I want to thank you pat for giving a very good argument against communism you just admitted yourself the only way you can add it is when you're silent everyone who disagrees with it because when you come on the hill it's all if you don't see it first applaud are in fear what of course we're going to have a ripple for what we believe in and you're going to inaudible against we believe but you're killing people I'm not killing anyone I'm not killing what I'm doing everything with my freedom of speech whether it be my video is on killing people we never really got onto the Congo Free State a second you're just that we're nothing Lee dodging my questions ok go go ahead you're literally going course you keep going I am literally doing everything that be considered counter-revolutionary I'm having you on debates I'm absolutely slaughtering you you're like over for now against me I am doing everything on the Instagram to stop you from becoming a legitimate movement because it's so stupid and so dangerous that people need to see how foolish it is and debates like this and discussions like this and the only thing you can do is to silence people that do that because every time you come on these live debates you like you get slaughtered so what do you do you slaughter them you slaughter the ones that speak see us is potentially pavement dangerous movement and you want to not killing what we were how or then we would see you as a potentially dangerous man that we would want to hear alligator it works but what difference my set of government is in system I'm not advocating that you get thrown a gulag you're saying well if you're protesting and you're doing all this you might have to go to prison for disagreeing with me and no it's not disagreeing with me as try an attack against listen no I forgot what it was like coming out with a sign that's a tail that's a telltale sign that you attend you would cry too peacefully over here Oh a cold even if that peaceful you're still trying to stop us and of course we're going to defend ourselves I'm not killing a minute wait a minute way for the others their attempts to peacefully transition the government all of the time in the United States like every single time there's an election it's a peaceful transition no I mean out there election it says I had clear pad this is a clear sign that you are in a cult when you're willing to kill people that disagree with you why does Isis kill people that disagrees because they're in a cult why did people kill themselves and fucking holes at town Jonas Berg or something why did they commit suicide because they were in a cult you are in a cult I'm not in a cult I just like the same on you are getting a data lutely and I dedicated you absolutely yours more length are you dedicated to your principles not to the point of writing more Kilimani for not agreeing with me I'm not going to be like oh you go there's your so rich in this like this impact not within you're a pacifist no no you can use self-defense my fill color hello I don't happen if you try to kill me I would kill Han if you imagine a mate we're kind of amending ourselves because you're trying to overthrow a revolutionary go on you think I with you we try to overthrow the government you're saying you're saying well if you plead you try to peacefully overthrow the government won't kill you I'm saying I will defend myself if I have to defend myself but if you come out with a sign first of all you're the only person out there like communism but if you come out a fucking sign I'm not going to walk out of my government and just use your the face we're gonna go ahead Pat there's to talk my name is Holden either you are a complete psychopath that needs serious mental help which I don't think you are I give you the benefit it out there are you are absolutely dominated into the cult of communism and I'm thinking it's the latter and I think you really need to maybe step away from social media because getting the point where you're actually thinking of harming people you have no only if you're trying to disguise what it really is is you're not right now violence for your principles then you're a pacifist no that's not I'm not going to call people dis how we got here in any way shape or form however why go and kill people you have to kill everybody knows in two weeks with you – I'm sorry I don't – kill this person all they're doing is holding a sign right but see this is a normal left this is typical of the left I mean look at the fucking ant ISA there's a speech a gay dude with blonde hair named Milo tries to speak and then fucking you have to throw bricks at horses and bash police officers type you are absolutely I really like for your own personal he'll be trying to do she's not going to kill anybody are you kidding me well I hope you actually wouldn't I am NOT going to anybody who's just easy no you're really daring and that's just pushes this just pushes even further I'll coming communities like a realistic system you have to murder everybody that disagrees with you how will we ever have a communist system it's already utopia enough without the murdering of innocent people protesting it like now that you add on and we just I'm dumb found your muted by the way yeah I guess I had to go what were you saying you're absolutely fucking insane I'm not by the way I just want to make it clear I'm not advocating for me go kill somebody I'm just saying I Patrick does not seem like a person that would honestly kill somebody that's why I don't think he's a psychopath I think he's flirting with a cold of communism and they cling to tightly held beliefs like worker exploitation theory which we've already refuted very heavily labor theory of value we already heavily refuted income inequality not being related IQ as we refuted all these things we had alehrer puted they still cling to despite complete consensus on and then he's willing to kill people that speak the truth I mean well that's one actually you get destroyed a debate I mean at some point you have to like reserve to that you know well yeah I mean you can either say maybe my ideas aren't too bad I'm saying if you're trying to stop if you're trying to stop us and of course we're going to have to do something but welcome your ad if I'm free I'm sure you like the other thing rubber why can't you just have a fair election why can't you do that is it because you got okay using a fairly low you got it no because with your rope at the American Revolution we had a kid shot for throwing a snowball at hit a Redcoat people were mad and then they revolted I am saying communism is a bad idea so I'm going to post on my social media which has much more followers than you so I'm thankfully covering anything you post it's a bad idea I'm going to debate people like you on Institute to show them live their debates or their idea to simply do not hold water that's why I like debating communist because I want to show people their ideas simply do not hold water need your ideas not old water this debate they didn't hold water the last four debates so it's helping my case I am by every definition account of revolutionary I'm doing everything in my power yep I'm getting our I did everything in my power to stop someone like Bernie Sanders from getting to power because I thought he was an idiot I'm not saying he's a confidence but he is an idiot so I did everything in my power I'm a counter revolutionary by every way you would define it there's no I need to forgive identities yeah we should try to get a PhD honor the Communists I feel like that's like the level where I need something better we need something better because this is absurd yeah I mean I am a counter revolutionary I'm doing everything I can to stop you I'm not physically harming you I got such an arm you I'm doing everything in my power to stop you and you're willing to kill me for that you're willing to silence me what I'm saying is a revolutionary state is going to have to defend its interests from those who would bring back the oil don't kill people that's like saying I got it going to try to that'll disaster only have to rate they're going to try to violently oh stop the revolution that yeah you kind of okay today a lesson that by English I don't you avoid no do not about comedy when you put comedy on a ballot that's not violent what I'm doing being on like about the denim we're not talking about North Korea Soviet Union you just said it was North Korea earlier if I did I was wrong it's a Soviet Union I had it right here okay wait it's AI wants to join Yiddish leftist let me find the thing real quick I want to read the debating a while not long enough I mean uh I then wha was seeking the appearance of democracy the Soviet Union had elections but only one communist party candidate appeared on the ballot for each office fear of punishment ensure that nearly all Soviet eosin voted by taking their ballot and placing it into a ballot box in 1949 Alvin Orlin a beekeeper protest of this absurd ritual by writing the word comedy on his secret ballot Soviet authorities linked the ballot in incentives ten to eight years and a labor camp for his crime it was a beekeeper named Ivan be learn ROI and will be many of the candidates were not members of the Communist Party and and may in fact many of the elected members were independent listen they didn't okay hold on really guys something I have about look like we have a which is also social like like we literally have examples of them reading elections we need a shake on here that's actually legit so he was getting us nowhere I'm honestly still dumbfounded that useful killing me only if you're going to kill us dude you just said earlier that if you're going to overthrow you're never sending them on violence we keep trying to change and you talk about counter revolutionaries and all you're doing is essentially my phone batteries at ten percent all you're doing is trying to dehumanize people I disagree with you because you have to silence them let's uh can I hear any because I'm not ten percent any reputation to IQ with Glink success which is what we started to in the beginning any reputation to the labor theory of value critiques that I presented any recommendation to the worker exploitation theory that I presented or any critique to the absolutely authoritarian regime that we painted for you any refutation for that or the economic ideas so do you want to talk about I think you would like this how about elections in Cuba you have tempers have ever had a dictator what it's literally the family rule now you're going to tell me that there was like honestly competition against the Castro's okay you want I go ahead and three long receipts do you believe Kim's on and received ninety nine percent of the votes you want me to read what I was going to read about but like you answer my question first answer my question well no he's not directly elected he's elected by the Supreme People's Assembly does he get ninety nine percent of the popular vote though he doesn't he's not popularly elected he's elected by the Supreme People's Assembly but people vote for him does he know any nine percent vote Dalit know that that he's elected by an electoral college are you not going so he can't you can't receive a ninety nine percent of the vote is that true or not you've actually believe that in terms of people accepting that one can on the ballot yes but not holding but it's debatable when you keep but you keep changing it where is he actually that run the reality is no society has politicians that well loved and never managed in that ending getting nowhere we'll get some real I was going to cortical n you want to give them a closing statement you're go ahead maybe it was like a thirty second closing yeah I will make it close meant it I will make a closing statement thirty seconds because I'm about to die not because of you the Baha I had a lot to read for my closing statement come on just give it give it up you can't just go on here all you caught this is another rant real quick you damned Kanye's will be so long to freaking fucking arm what's it called rampart or you know what filibuster yeah you filibuster so damn much no one cares about the damn history please get to the point where you're clearly flawed no I'm going to read the heating on the bus oh no you're not we're going to you after 30 seconds on counting now all right one of the first issues related to capital as much it covers the economic fight is just an example on my ass you what my god because I that was my introduction and I wouldn't fuck what it was you have the answer to the question and you wouldn't say give me an introduction I didn't know it's never over the bus 3 its sidetrack the whole thing we never needed to talk about brains whenever you as far as alright I'm going ahead anything so one of the servants of burden that related to capitalism might recover is the economic freedom index capitalist often use it to determine whether or not a country can be considered a real practitioner so it was like oh babe if you just said this an hour and a half ago well then let me say it now what's too fucking late is going to percent overriding you them on now it refute it so do you believe less government equals more capitalism and freedom into government you game over on the economic freedom index doesn't act ok that's for example on the government spending direct from a directly about asked questions I I will put my vote on the charge if you want to ask lieutenant put your phone agree but I don't wait a minute wait a minute let's end this let's go live again get a fresh debate you present that at the beginning of it and that'll be our debate do you on now don't tell each other in Mortimer I need something more entertaining than this okay we won't do a no talking over each other will end this will go live again fine read that paper to your rings differently okay we'll go five again part two I'm deleting this is fucking bullshit we're gonna go live again no no leave it no no that's funny please leave it ok ok ok ok ok hold out guys the next stream it'll be out soon literally give us like five minutes

  1. This has to be the most unfair debate i have ever seen, The host who is on the same side with his buddy Mr Blue Tie over there, have been dominating the whole discussion while opposition barely had a chance to finish a sentence.
    This is no way to have a debate, there should have been a clear structure to this debate with people taking turns.

  2. This was hard to watch…Host is supposed to moderate even with some bias jumping in on the mockery. No one was cool headed, and for an audience, they need to see that..Missing debate etiquette big time. Mocking other debaters points should concede in any debate. Blue tie needs to learn when to speak.
    Everyone can google whatever your talking about but doing it mid debate is not what a debate is. Because at that point it becomes where you get it. Just because you say it's objective.. doesn't mean it is. You take "objective" analysis, from an already biased corporation that most likely gets funded by the government in some way shape or form and call it objective. Please. Blue tie – You cannot create a debate topic and have an answer to said question because it's obviously biased – which leads to straw-men talking points.
     Rhetorical questions are one thing, but strong arming a question is fucking pathetic. You don't mock your opponents thought. You knew you guys had leftists coming on but fuck – you guys didn't do a good job representing capitalism either. I wouldn't do anymore debates if I were you till you guys know how to do it right, even if it's through getting someone else to moderate if you want in, and eating through out?

    I was watching children.. sad to say.

  3. the french revolution came after the American revolution. The US Constitution was finally ratified the same year the French revolution started. Our government has nothing to do with the french idea of democracy.

  4. currency is much older than capitalism. currency goes all the way back to early agrarian civilizations. Suppose you're trying to trade good A for good B but the person who owns B doesn't want A. then suppose you find someone who wants A but they don't have B but rather good C, which the first trader did want. So you trade Good A for good C and then C for B. Good C is for you nothing more than a medium of exchange, a currency if you will. But suppose the chain is larger than three people, as it grows it becomes more and more untenable for you to go out and find all the right trades you must make to get the good you want, and you're not the only person with this problem, so people start trading in precious metals as a universal medium of exchange. Some people make these metals into regularly shaped pieces so it's easier to identify them and determine the actual value of the pieces. Then the state gets involved and says that only the king's official coins may be used as currency, to regulate taxation. Then as the king's treasury is running low he decided to change the composition of his coins. eventually, the metal in the coins becomes worth less than the coins themselves and it is now a fiat currency.

  5. I think you need to have a new capitalism and communism debate with 2 people or with 3 respectful people who don't interrupt

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