OPRAH: When were you able to align or step into the Jesus that you know now versus the Jesus that you grew up hearing about, or the religion you grew up hearing about? PASTOR LENTZ: I think for me, when I started right around 18, 19 years old, that’s when what you believe actually matters. Because before that, you can have a basis, like a parent can give their kid a structure. But until you have to actually test it out, you don’t know what it is. That’s why most college kids, they go to college and they go crazy because their parents have told them what to do. And the moment they get a chance to pick for themselves, they’re picking other options. So my parents did what I believe to be wise which is, Carl, this is what we believe. This is who we are. And we’ll point you in a direction. But you’re gonna have to make these calls yourself. OPRAH: Wow. PASTOR LENTZ: We can’t force you to do this. OPRAH: Wise parents. PASTOR LENTZ: Yeah. And that to me was everything. So they gave me a chance to be stupid, to be an idiot, to make my own decisions, and I got to a place where I was, like, I can’t do this without Jesus. I’m not — I’m not capable. I’m not good enough to, you know, control this much of my life. I need to explore. OPRAH: So what was the break-through moment? PASTOR LENTZ: I do believe that sometimes we give break-through moments too much credit in this regard, that there’s a lot of small breakthroughs — OPRAH: Yeah, I agree. PASTOR LENTZ: But for me, I went to North Carolina State University, played basketball there, saw a lot of stuff my parents had told me about, which is stuff can’t make you happy. You know, you’re, like, yeah, yeah, whatever. But let me try it out myself. And a couple things that happened where I just saw, whether it was hurting people or empty living that I just — my eyes were opened. And I believe that’s what the grace of God will do for everybody. It will open up your eyes. You have to make a decision to accept or reject some of the truths that you see. But for me, I feel like right at the right time I opened up my eyes.